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This is a comments thread about Blog Post: Ben-Hur Lives! by Lukas Kendall
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 1:59 PM   
 By:   Erik Donovan   (Member)

Let's put this into perspective. There are only about six people here who are complaining but it seems to be more because these same six are saying the same thing time and time again. Rebuttals simple feed their constant whinging.

So you have no issues with lying?

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 2:00 PM   
 By:   David (Giacchino-fan)   (Member)

Let's put this into perspective. There are only about six people here who are complaining but it seems to be more because these same six are saying the same thing time and time again. Rebuttals simple feed their constant whinging.

I'm only replying to some because it seems that they don't know what a 'lie' is and set up straw arguments ("they're made it's being repressed!"). I have only expressed disappointment in the lack of honesty, nothing more. I cannot change the fact that this is getting a repressing, nor do I intend to try. I'll even be buying one of the copies if I get the chance.

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 2:06 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

To reiterate.. I don't know anyone who is disappointed about the repressing, just the dishonesty.

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!! Why do people not see this was a lie? A lie that helped sell the original pressing! I hate limited editions, I hate speculators and I hate lairs! DO NOT SAY IT! Do not print anything other than Limited Edition Pressing on the inserts and do not state a limited number. I love what Varese has done with their Limited Edition Series, they are limited to 1000, but no where on the inserts do I see that! I think it is great that more and more people will be able to get this.

This popped into my head:

"Do you, _______, take _______ to be your wife/husband? Do you promise to love, honor, cherish and protect her/him, forsaking all others and holding only unto her/him?" ("I do")...pause..."wait, I changed my mind!"


IMAGINE: Making available more of something that people clearly want! Think of the damage this sort of behavior could cause! We might see THE TOWERING INFERNO offered again for sale. The list of potential abuses is endless! Arrest this liar and string him up! razz razz razz

NP: BEN-HUR, Disc 1

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 2:15 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)




 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 2:20 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

My POINT is absolutely valid and correct - IF, using BSX as an example, they did this, Ford Thaxton would be flayed alive on this board for doing so. You know it, I know it, and the man in the moon knows it. You can dance around that all you like, but that's the way it would be.

I disagree, Bruce. If BSX did what FSM have done with 'Ben Hur, then I believe that the vast majority of people who have applauded Lukas would also applaud Ford. There are a few people here who support labels in the same way they might support a football team, but they are in a minority. Most people here are intelligent and consistent in their opinions.


I understand your points, but we can agree to disagree on this one.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 2:23 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

What POINT was there in that? Did I make one at you? No. I'm sure you can respond to a post, take exception if you must, without the typical posturing, no? And I will say again: My POINT is absolutely valid and correct - IF, using BSX as an example, they did this, Ford Thaxton would be flayed alive on this board for doing so. You know it, I know it, and the man in the moon knows it. You can dance around that all you like, but that's the way it would be. Make of that what you will (and I'm sure it will include another unnecessary dig). Everyone has their own feelings about this, and everyone is entitled to think what they will and to express the yay or nay of it. That's what a discussion board is about.

I think you are trying to present opinions as facts and I think you are incorrect. That's my opinion. You are welcome to disagree.

If Ford had the financial backing and professional relationships in place to bring us BEN-HUR, sell it out in two weeks, and bring it right back, Ford would be everybody's hero, in my opinion.

My opinion is people care more about the title than the name that brought it to them. You're welcome to disagree.

Ford gets flayed for a lot of things, and there are those who have an axe to grind with him for whatever reason, but they are the minority and if they want Ben-Hur and he produced it, they would buy it just like anything else.

You certainly are allowed to have your opinion, I don't have an issue with you having an opinion, I have an issue with you suggesting that your opinion is some sort of fact that the "man on the moon knows", which is intellectually lazy.


Well, my opinion is that we all have our ideas about intellectual laziness.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 2:39 PM   
 By:   Erik Donovan   (Member)

Mate, have a look at the pic below, calm down/cheer up and get on with the rest of your day.



Why would I have to bother with the picture, I HAVE A WIFE! Do you? If you do, I'm sure she really likes you looking at this type of stuff!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 2:39 PM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

Let's put this into perspective. There are only about six people here who are complaining but it seems to be more because these same six are saying the same thing time and time again. Rebuttals simple feed their constant whinging.

So you have no issues with lying?


I'm sure I'm wasting my time in replying but a lie is when someone deliberately sets out to deceive i.e. saying something which they know to be untrue at the time. Making changes from what was previously said, due to different circumstances, is not a lie. If I said yesterday that I was definitely not going to sell my car but today someone made a good offer for it and so I decided to sell it does not mean that what I said yesterday was a lie.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 2:43 PM   
 By:   Erik Donovan   (Member)

Let's put this into perspective. There are only about six people here who are complaining but it seems to be more because these same six are saying the same thing time and time again. Rebuttals simple feed their constant whinging.

So you have no issues with lying?


I'm sure I'm wasting my time in replying but a lie is when someone deliberately sets out to deceive i.e. saying something which they know to be untrue at the time. Making changes from what was previously said, due to different circumstances, is not a lie. If I said yesterday that I was definitely not going to sell my car but today someone made a good offer for it and so I decided to sell it does not mean that what I said yesterday was a lie.


Oh my gosh, if that is not a load of BS!! Good luck with that one! It is a lie no matter what! I would like to see you try and use that explanation in a real court case!

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 2:58 PM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

Mr Woolston,

You're creating a straw man argument. Nobody has even suggested keeping scores unavailable, so why the tirade? You singularly refuse to address any of the the actual points I raised in my earlier post, despite asking me for my position.

However, I conclude from your vigorous defence of Lukas that you unreservedly approve of his selling countless thousands of repressed CDs, despite entering into a clearly-stated agreement with the customer that the number would be limited to 3,000.

Am I right in assuming that, in your opinion, every soundtrack producer has the right to press as many copies of limited releases as his fancy takes him - as long as he feels the market can take it? If Bruce wants to press five thousand copies of his CDs he can do so with impunity - he doesn't even have to tell us that there are more than the "legal" 1000 copies (or so) in existence?


I refuse to address your points? I've replied in detail!

Anyway ...

Do I think Lukas should be able to re-press CDs? Yes, as long as it's legal.

"Despite entering into an agreement..."

There is no 'agreement' here. It is a decision. and businesses can overturn decisions.

I have no problem with sellers realising they underestimated demand and deciding to go back and supply more.

I didn't think I was being vague about that.

Cheers


 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:06 PM   
 By:   orbital   (Member)

Egoism FTW! Can pick up my copy from the retailer next Tuesday. I couldn't care less of what's happening afterwards with this release. razz

Well, okay, I wish LK all the best & hope he sells the 2nd batch as fast as the 1st.

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:10 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Oh my gosh, if that is not a load of BS!! Good luck with that one! It is a lie no matter what!

No. If you say you are not going to a party tomorrow because you are genuinely ill, and the next day you feel much better and decide you are able to go to the party after all, were you lying originally? Of course not.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:15 PM   
 By:   Erik Donovan   (Member)

Announcement #1:
"February 24 - New from FSM, BEN-HUR Complete 5 CD collection! Limited to 2000! Now shipping!"

Announcement #2:
"To answer a question: no, we will not be repressing this after the 2000 copies sell out. We have, I think more than any of the other labels, tried to press our titles in sufficient quantities and as a result have over-pressed more often than not...and we're sitting on stock that costs money to store. I think that a title this high-profile would be re-licensed to another label so as not to go off the market. But that's not something I have any control over."

Item sells out!

Announcement #3:
"We are making more. I appreciate that many of you might be mad at us for changing our mind. I want to explain very clearly the reason (after the jump). I NEED THE MONEY!"

But, no one can see it. I guess money can make people blind!

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:18 PM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

It is a lie no matter what! I would like to see you try and use that explanation in a real court case!

It's not a lie. It's a response to an unexpected change in circumstances. It's very simple.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:20 PM   
 By:   Erik Donovan   (Member)

Oh my gosh, if that is not a load of BS!! Good luck with that one! It is a lie no matter what!

No. If you say you are not going to a party tomorrow because you are genuinely ill, and the next day you feel much better and decide you are able to go to the party after all, were you lying originally? Of course not.


Well, in that case I would have stayed home anyway, I already told them I would not be at the party, so it would inconsiderate to show up! So no, I would not be lying, you would have lied if you showed up!! Besides if you just started feeling better, you will probably get everyone at the party sick and then you would not be invited ever again!

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:21 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

I'm sure I'm wasting my time in replying but a lie is when someone deliberately sets out to deceive i.e. saying something which they know to be untrue at the time. Making changes from what was previously said, due to different circumstances, is not a lie. If I said yesterday that I was definitely not going to sell my car but today someone made a good offer for it and so I decided to sell it does not mean that what I said yesterday was a lie.

Oh my gosh, if that is not a load of BS!! Good luck with that one! It is a lie no matter what! I would like to see you try and use that explanation in a real court case!


Erik, I know that you feel passionately about this, but there is a distinction here. It's not BS. A lie is defined as "an intentionally false statement." A false statement is not in itself a lie; intent is the key. And I happen to believe that Lukas was being honest when he said he had no intention of pressing more.

That said, you could very accurately, and just as angrily, charge that Lukas has not been true to his word. Lukas broke a promise. So I totally understand it if you believe that he should have refused to make more, despite the necessary financial benefit to him and the demand from fans.

But I don't happen to feel that way -- I think the good in real world terms far outweighs the bad, which as far as I can see exists only in the sphere of principle and not practicality. I do consider myself a principled person. I felt fairly strongly that Intrada should not press more "Inchon"s at the time. I guess I'm just a little mellower now.

I honestly don't believe there are very many fans who will forever boycott FSM CDs because of this. But you know what? All anybody in business is doing is guessing. Lukas guessed what the demand would be for this product. He guessed wrong. He could have shrugged and left good money on the table (money he deserves, I think) and left fans disappointed as a show of integrity. Or he could (as he did) renegotiate with the studio to make more copies. Honestly, what good would that display of integrity really done anybody?

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:23 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

it would inconsiderate to show up!

In your present state of mind, do you not think it is also inconsiderate to show up here?

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:26 PM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

I work in a school.

Tuesday night I feel unwell. I phone the Head to say I'm unwell. I won't be in on Wednesday.

Wednesday morning, I wake up feeling better. I go to work and teach my class.

Was I lying on Tuesday night when I phoned the Head to say I was unwell?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:27 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

The way I see it, the first pressing was limited to 2,000 copies and the second pressing will be limited to 2,000 copies.

And they should be clearly identified as such.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:31 PM   
 By:   Erik Donovan   (Member)

So, every time anyone looks at my CD library, reads the inserts and say, "Wow, there were only 2000 of these made?" My response would be, "No, not really, there were 4000 made, that is just a lie to help sell a release."
You would have no problem with me saying that?

 
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