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 Posted:   Nov 15, 2013 - 8:12 PM   
 By:   HAL 2000   (Member)

Can anyone shed light on the reason Goldsmith did a string a of scores with the Hungarian State Opera Orchestra during the mid 80's? If memory serves he did Hoosiers, Extreme Prejudice, Rambo 3, Lionheart, and maybe Rent-a-Cop. I think the Islands in the Stream re-recording was with them as well.

Whlle I enjoy these scores because of the typically wonderful Goldsmith compositions the performances are wildly uneven with the brass section, in particular, being in over its head. It muddies what could have been some sparking brass passages in these scores. Lionheart is probably the most accomplished of these recordings while Rambo3 in just a notch above horrible. It was even rumored that Goldsmith may have lost Academy votes for Hoosiers because of having scored the film with the orchestra because of the country's ties to communism.

I'm sure there were budget and union constraints at work in the decision but Goldsmith must have been comfortable enough to do this many scores with the HSOO.

Anyone know more about it?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 15, 2013 - 10:57 PM   
 By:   zooba   (Member)

I remember an interview with Goldsmith talking about recording all this stuff over there and it simply was monetary and "cheaper" to do it over there. I think he said just that. No astronomical musician fees like in the states. Perhaps also the HSOO had some beautiful female violinists. Gals from Budapest are quite hot!

I think he recorded one score in Italy in a church basement if I recall correctly?

 
 Posted:   Nov 15, 2013 - 11:27 PM   
 By:   Mr Drive   (Member)

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=91902&forumID=1&archive=0

Yes, it was always said it was for monetary reasons. I wondered why Goldsmith kept using them for quite some time. They must have saved a lot of money. I think he even criticized their playing openly.

The basement score would be INCHON, I think. CASSANDRAS CROSSING was also recorded in Italy.

 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 2:44 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

Can anyone shed light on the reason Goldsmith did a string a of scores with the Hungarian State Opera Orchestra during the mid 80's? If memory serves he did Hoosiers, Extreme Prejudice, Rambo 3, Lionheart, and maybe Rent-a-Cop. I think the Islands in the Stream re-recording was with them as well.

King Solomon's Mines was also recorded in Budapest.

It was even rumored that Goldsmith may have lost Academy votes for Hoosiers because of having scored the film with the orchestra because of the country's ties to communism.

Communism my a**. It was the American musicians' union that penalized several composers for recording overseas. It has nothing to do with Communism, but everything with protectionism and petty union policy.

Lalo Schifrin was another composer who suffered during that time. I think he was even grey- if not blacklisted.

The Budapest orchestras (State, Radio Symphony, MAV) are/were very good bands, but not experienced in the pressures of film music recording (little rehearsal time for demanding, unfamiliar music). But when you compare these performances to the City of Prague Philharmonic of the same period, they're still golden!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 4:12 AM   
 By:   governor   (Member)

Can anyone shed light on the reason Goldsmith did a string a of scores with the Hungarian State Opera Orchestra during the mid 80's? If memory serves he did Hoosiers, Extreme Prejudice, Rambo 3, Lionheart, and maybe Rent-a-Cop. I think the Islands in the Stream re-recording was with them as well.

Whlle I enjoy these scores because of the typically wonderful Goldsmith compositions the performances are wildly uneven with the brass section, in particular, being in over its head. It muddies what could have been some sparking brass passages in these scores. Lionheart is probably the most accomplished of these recordings while Rambo3 in just a notch above horrible. It was even rumored that Goldsmith may have lost Academy votes for Hoosiers because of having scored the film with the orchestra because of the country's ties to communism.

I'm sure there were budget and union constraints at work in the decision but Goldsmith must have been comfortable enough to do this many scores with the HSOO.

Anyone know more about it?


Check these 1987 articles from the Chicago Tribune.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1987-04-05/entertainment/8701260297_1_wanda-toscanini-horowitz-footwork-late-conductor-arturo-toscanini

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1987-12-28/features/8704060556_1_music-film-low-budget

 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 5:14 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Great goulash?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 5:48 AM   
 By:   jonathan_little   (Member)

The Budapest orchestras (State, Radio Symphony, MAV) are/were very good bands, but not experienced in the pressures of film music recording (little rehearsal time for demanding, unfamiliar music). But when you compare these performances to the City of Prague Philharmonic of the same period, they're still golden!

I think the Hungarian State Opera Orchestra of the 1980s was pretty equivalent to the COPP of the 1990s. The Hungarians faded from the 'performing film music cheaply and poorly' scene and the COPP took their place.

I think Goldsmith found the best use for the Opera Orchestra by smothering it with electronics. Scores such as Lionheart ("The Wrong Flag" is so depressing) or King Solomon's Mines highlight their weaknesses while compositions like Rent-A-Cop and Extreme Prejudice sound almost like they're written to be performed by a cheap orchestra.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 6:44 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

The underlying question here is how much control does the composer have in these matters? Low budgets may not provide for an orchestra at all, or maybe just synth and a couple of violins. At the other extreme one imagines John Williams getting deluxe treatment when he works with Lucas or Spielberg. JG stood high in the industry, but most of the films in question were not exactly blockbusters. He evidently consented to the Budapest arrangement, just as he consented to do a lot of lousy movies. But did he choose it?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 5:45 PM   
 By:   filmusicnow   (Member)

Can anyone shed light on the reason Goldsmith did a string a of scores with the Hungarian State Opera Orchestra during the mid 80's? If memory serves he did Hoosiers, Extreme Prejudice, Rambo 3, Lionheart, and maybe Rent-a-Cop. I think the Islands in the Stream re-recording was with them as well.

Whlle I enjoy these scores because of the typically wonderful Goldsmith compositions the performances are wildly uneven with the brass section, in particular, being in over its head. It muddies what could have been some sparking brass passages in these scores. Lionheart is probably the most accomplished of these recordings while Rambo3 in just a notch above horrible. It was even rumored that Goldsmith may have lost Academy votes for Hoosiers because of having scored the film with the orchestra because of the country's ties to communism.

I'm sure there were budget and union constraints at work in the decision but Goldsmith must have been comfortable enough to do this many scores with the HSOO.

Anyone know more about it?


The rerecording of "Islands In The Stream" was done with the Hungarian Symphony Orchestra. Also, Jerry got a lot of heat recording "Hoosiers" because a lot of Hollywood newspapers berated him for recording it in "Communist Hungary" because of the Oscar nomination he got for the score.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 6:01 PM   
 By:   patrick_runkle   (Member)

I think Goldsmith found the best use for the Opera Orchestra by smothering it with electronics. Scores such as Lionheart ("The Wrong Flag" is so depressing) or King Solomon's Mines highlight their weaknesses while compositions like Rent-A-Cop and Extreme Prejudice sound almost like they're written to be performed by a cheap orchestra.

This is interesting. Although I don't mean to be disagreeable, I was actually going to post the exact opposite thought. Regardless of one's opinions of Jerry's electronics, the integration of the electronics in the Hungarian stuff is just completely terrible. The "King Solomon's Mines" performance doesn't bother me so much, as it's probably the best-sounding score he recorded there.

But consider "Twilight Zone," "Gremlins" and "Explorers," all of which have lots of electronic elements, but they have incredible, rich dynamics and tons of orchestral punch. But the Hungarian stuff is this really dodgy orchestral performance with bad acoustics on top of which some questionable electronics were layered, apparently in a London studio after the fact. "Extreme Prejudice" is one of my favorite scores, but really if I'm being honest it sounds like crap. The electronics are tinny and they clash with the boomy room sound. Worse, it seems like Jerry was trying to make up for the weak sound of the orchestral recording by doubling some instrument lines on synths, which he didn't do so much in other scores--instead, he chose to use the electronics in a more logical way, to make sounds the orchestra couldn't make.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 6:17 PM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

The "Unconfirmed Rumor" that was floating around for years was that there was some sort of "Kick Back" from the Hungary Government going to folks who recorded with that Orchestra during this time frame.

It would explain why why it was attractive to record there so much doing this period.

The scores recorded with the Orchestra by Jerry Goldsmith are

KING SOLOMON'S MINES
HOOISERS
Extreme Prejudice
Lionheart
Rent-a-Cop
RABMO III

He also recorded the album of ISLANDS IN THE STREAM with INTRADA after the sessions for LIONHEART.

Now it's worth mention that the producers of RAMBO III according to one source were very unhappy with the performance of the orchestra and replaced a number of cues with music from RABMO II for the final version of the film.

In 1987) Alan Silvestri went there to try and record the score to PREDATOR and after a a few sessions pulled out and came by to LOS ANGELES to re-record the score here.

After these two events, film scoring with this Orchestra stopped with American composers who then Switched to Germany, Prague or London.

Ford A. Thaxton

 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 6:20 PM   
 By:   KevinSmith   (Member)

Their performance in Basil Poledouris`s `Farewell to the King` was probably their best (but then, it was not a technically challenging score to perform).

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 6:32 PM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

Their performance in Basil Poledouris`s `Farewell to the King` was probably their best (but then, it was not a technically challenging score to perform).

According to Basil himself, getting the score to sound as good as it does was a lot of work…..He wasn't very keen on the complete release we did on it for PROMETHEUS RECORDS, but he did like the score he wrote..

As I recall he scored FAREWELL TO THE KING sometime in Late 1988 or early 1989...

He really HATED the performance of CHERRY 2000, I mean HATED IT.

Not as much as he hated the performance on CONAN THE DESTROYER by the Italian Orchestra, but it came close…..

Ford A. Thaxton

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 8:44 PM   
 By:   rickO   (Member)

I love Goldsmith's LIONHEART, but the performances and the sound quality of the recording kind of ruin the experience of listening to it. I would love a sparkling new recording done for this one performed better!

-Rick O.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 4:35 AM   
 By:   johnbijl   (Member)



In 1987 Alan Silvestri went there to try and record the score to PREDATOR and after a a few sessions pulled out and came by to LOS ANGELES to re-record the score here.


Didn't that also happen with Total Recall? I remember something about the orchestra not being able to handle the changes in tempo and meter.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 4:37 AM   
 By:   governor   (Member)



In 1987 Alan Silvestri went there to try and record the score to PREDATOR and after a a few sessions pulled out and came by to LOS ANGELES to re-record the score here.


Didn't that also happen with Total Recall? I remember something about the orchestra not being able to handle the changes in tempo and meter.



In that particular case, it was the Graunke Symphony from Munich.

 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 5:22 AM   
 By:   Stefancos   (Member)

The Graunke had the same experience with Superman IV.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 8:18 AM   
 By:   johnbijl   (Member)



In 1987 Alan Silvestri went there to try and record the score to PREDATOR and after a a few sessions pulled out and came by to LOS ANGELES to re-record the score here.


Didn't that also happen with Total Recall? I remember something about the orchestra not being able to handle the changes in tempo and meter.



In that particular case, it was the Graunke Symphony from Munich.


Ah, right! Thanks!

BTW, Stefan, soon I'll have a meeting with Onno van Veldhuizen. Is there something you need me to pass on to him? :-D

 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 4:11 PM   
 By:   KevinSmith   (Member)

Their performance in Basil Poledouris`s `Farewell to the King` was probably their best (but then, it was not a technically challenging score to perform).

According to Basil himself, getting the score to sound as good as it does was a lot of work…..He wasn't very keen on the complete release we did on it for PROMETHEUS RECORDS, but he did like the score he wrote..

As I recall he scored FAREWELL TO THE KING sometime in Late 1988 or early 1989...

He really HATED the performance of CHERRY 2000, I mean HATED IT.

Not as much as he hated the performance on CONAN THE DESTROYER by the Italian Orchestra, but it came close…..

Ford A. Thaxton


What about the performance on Conan The Barbarian?

 
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