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 Posted:   Jan 12, 2014 - 6:50 AM   
 By:   CédricD   (Member)

Anybody can list the differences between Star Trek films original albums and their expanded reissues ? Would like to know which tracks are exclusive to the original CDs in termes of content of course, but also in terms of edits (and mixing if there is a BIG difference). Thank you !

 
 Posted:   Jan 13, 2014 - 3:53 AM   
 By:   Amer Zahid   (Member)

go to this website:

http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 13, 2014 - 5:03 AM   
 By:   CédricD   (Member)

I know this website, but sometimes tracks have the same length but not the same content, or you can have different titles for the same track, etc. That's why I asked the question, and I guess it can be of interest for other people than me.

 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2014 - 7:48 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

If you're looking for a list of specifics, it's going to be a pretty long one. The expansions often feature different takes and edits than what appear on the original album, and almost all of them have been remixed. Usually, previously unreleased and expanded tracks are marked thus on the packaging, and all of the expansions save for Nemesis and the 2009 film have copious program notes.


The short version:


Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Jerry Goldsmith)

The La-La Land version has almost everything that appeared on previously releases (a few tracks from the 1999 edition are different takes, but with very minor variations), and the sound mix is much superior to anything that came before it. Most of the original soundtrack cues were different takes from the original, the OST is included (which would be identical in all ways to the Columbia CD). The 1999 version may be a slightly more concise listening experience, but it is trumped not only by the better sound on the La-La Land edition, but by the sheer wealth of fascinating material, not just more cues from the film but the original versions of several musical setpieces composed before the iconic theme was finalized.


Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (James Horner)

The Retrograde version is expanded and has a much, much better sound mix than the awful sonics of the GNP Crescendo CD. It also has all of the same takes, so the original album can be reconstructed from the new one for the most part with the exception of the inclusion of a wild sound effect at the conclusion of “Battle In the Mutara Nebula.” The original album hit most of the important action cues, but the expansion adds a layer of intrigue and drama.


Star Trek III: The Search for Spock (James Horner)

The Retrograde version has both the complete score, which contains some very different takes to what appeared on the original LP, as well as the original album. The sound mix is also clearer than what appeared on the GNP CD, but as the GNP CD didn't sound that bad to begin with, the improvement isn't as drastic as it is on Wrath of Khan. This is one score where the expansion has been roundly praised as being a much better presentation of the score.


Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (Leonard Rosenman)

The Intrada edition has better sound than the MCA CD, and any album tracks that differ from their presentation in the score are presented after the score. The expansion has helped this score get a lot more fans since it came out.


Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (Jerry Goldsmith)

The La-La Land Intrada edition has the complete score on one disc, and the original album plus extras on the other. The album has some cues that are significantly different from what appear in the score. The sound on the new edition isn't revelatory when compared to the Epic CD.


Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (Cliff Eidelman)

Again, Intrada's edition the score is on the first disc, while the album mix, which has different edits and has cues crossfaded and whatnot, is presented on the second. The full score runs about ten minutes longer than the album and has a few nice standout moments (e.g. “The Search”), but overall I think that this score doesn't gain as much as the others by expansion, which is more a reflection of how generous the length of the original MCA CD was than it is on the quality of the additional music. The sound isn't particularly different either. That said, I still prefer it to the MCA CD because I do like the expanded version, I just don't think it's all that different from the album.


Star Trek: Generations (Dennis McCarthy)

GNP's new edition has much improved sound over their previous edition, and the expansion fleshes out the score and gives it much more substance. The score is edited differently on this release, with several cues grouped together that were separate on the original album, which is also included in remastered form on a second disc along with some extras.


Star Trek: First Contact (Jerry Goldsmith)

GNP's new edition contains all of the tracks from the previous edition (so the original album can be reconstructed from the new one), along with the rest of the score in film order, and a few alternates. I find the expanded version to be more fun than the original album, with Joel Goldsmith's explosive “Flight of the Phoenix” being a standout cue of the entire franchise much less the expansions. The sound is pretty much equivalent to the previous edition.


Star Trek: Insurrection (Jerry Goldsmith)

GNP's new edition has an expanded presentation of the score, which plays much better than the shorter album configuration. The original album can not be reconstructed from the expansion, so completists would need to have both. The sound is also pretty much equivalent to the previous edition.


Star Trek: Nemesis (Jerry Goldsmith)

I haven't received Varèse disc yet, so no comment at this present time.


Star Trek 2009 (Michael Giacchino)

The expanded Varèse edition is a much better presentation of the score than the original album, which was insufficient to encompass the breadth of the score. It is not complete, however (no original main title?), and has some strange editing choices, and is missing the choral overlays for several cues (most noticeably “Spock Goes Spelunking” and “Back From Black”). The version of “Hella Bar Talk” has more percussion on the Deluxe than the original, and “Labor of Love” is truncated, but otherwise the original album can be reconstructed from the Deluxe; sound is the same. It is unlikely that this score will be revisited anytime soon, however, and the Deluxe Edition is better than the single-disc.

 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2014 - 8:46 AM   
 By:   other tallguy   (Member)

Well done, Josh. Thank you!

It’s funny that there is often a single cue that makes an expanded CD worthwhile even if it is 99% the same as the original. For me this is the Star Trek VI cue of flying to spacedock. And it’s such a teeny cue to boot!

On the flip side, as much as I enjoy some of the expanded cues on the 2009 Deluxe, I think the original album is a much tighter presentation and is pretty much the only UN-expanded disc I listen to. Weird, right?

 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2014 - 9:07 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

It’s funny that there is often a single cue that makes an expanded CD worthwhile even if it is 99% the same as the original. For me this is the Star Trek VI cue of flying to spacedock. And it’s such a teeny cue to boot!

I have a bunch of these throughout the franchise. Wrath of Khan has “Kirk Takes Command,” The Final Frontier has “A Tall Ship,” short cues based on thematic material represented elsewhere on the albums… but they have a freshness to them that adds more than their relative brevity would imply.


On the flip side, as much as I enjoy some of the expanded cues on the 2009 Deluxe, I think the original album is a much tighter presentation and is pretty much the only UN-expanded disc I listen to. Weird, right?

I like the score in its longer form, but I don't think it's so strange to prefer something more concise (there are plenty of scores where I prefer the album version better as well). However, if there is a cue from this score I would characterize as one of those from above, it would be “Trekking Down the Narada.”

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2014 - 9:56 AM   
 By:   CédricD   (Member)

Thank you so much, Josh ! Precious informations here.

 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2014 - 10:02 AM   
 By:   OneBuckFilms   (Member)

I think Josh's summary essentially covers it.

An addendum to Star Trek III - On disc 2, it contains a recreation of the GNP CD contents, but directly from the digital master tapes used for the rest of the score, so it's basically the OST remastered.

IMHO, with the exception of Insurrection and Nemesis, there is no need to hang on to the OSTs.

Star Trek TMP 20th Anniversary Edition does contain improved sound quality for Ilia's Theme from the OST, but there is very little difference to my ears, so the LLLR release is all I need there.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2014 - 10:48 AM   
 By:   John Mullin   (Member)

I spent all morning measuring, and I can tell you with certainty that all of the Star Trek CDs are exactly 4.75 inches in diameter, even the re-releases.

I noticed while I was doing my research that while the underside of each disc was consistently shiny, the artwork varied wildly on the top sides from disc to disc. I will continue my research this afternoon and report back if I spot any differences in musical content.

 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2014 - 10:53 AM   
 By:   other tallguy   (Member)

I think Josh's summary essentially covers it.

An addendum to Star Trek III - On disc 2, it contains a recreation of the GNP CD contents, but directly from the digital master tapes used for the rest of the score, so it's basically the OST remastered.

IMHO, with the exception of Insurrection and Nemesis, there is no need to hang on to the OSTs.

Star Trek TMP 20th Anniversary Edition does contain improved sound quality for Ilia's Theme from the OST, but there is very little difference to my ears, so the LLLR release is all I need there.


For Star Trek II's Battle in the Mutara Nebula I was silly enough to reconstruct the original album edit using mostly the new track with the fade and silence from the original. I’m not certain if I like it better (I think I do) or if I’m just used to it after 32 years. I just vividly remember listening to the album with headphones on back in 1982 and nearly jumping out of my skin when the orchestra roars back after that mid-track silence. I don’t think the film version with the wild music over the break has the same impact.

 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2014 - 1:05 PM   
 By:   Trent B   (Member)

BTW the Star Trek V version while LLL's has long since sold out you can buy it from Intrada. That is unlimited and is the same version as LLL, with slightly different artwork.

For Insurrection, yes you do need to keep the OST since it has the longer version of "Children's Story".

Star Trek Nemesis (Jerry Goldsmith)
For this, you can ditch the OST. Everything's that's presented on the OST is on the complete release. In my opinion the complete release has better sound quality.


Also for Star Trek 2009 it's best to keep the OST. That has a slightly different version of "Hella Bar Talk" compared to the Deluxe Edition.

Regarding the overlays towards the end of "Battle In The Mutara Nebula" from the FSM release, I consider that a corrected version. They are clearly there in the film, just for some weird reason they were left off on the original album. I like having those there.

 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2014 - 3:00 PM   
 By:   other tallguy   (Member)

Regarding the overlays towards the end of "Battle In The Mutara Nebula" from the FSM release, I consider that a corrected version. They are clearly there in the film, just for some weird reason they were left off on the original album. I like having those there.

Well, the blaster beam “whine” at the end of The Meld isn’t on TMP (yes, it’s in an extra track but not in the score proper) and there’s that percussion in Generations when Kirk takes command that isn’t anywhere. Neither of those were originally intended by the composer, as I understand it.

 
 Posted:   Jan 26, 2014 - 8:29 AM   
 By:   Bishop   (Member)

In reply to ...

==================================================
Star Trek: Nemesis (Jerry Goldsmith)

I haven't received Varèse disc yet, so no comment at this present time.

...

(by Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt)
==================================================

&

==================================================
Star Trek Nemesis (Jerry Goldsmith)
For this, you can ditch the OST. Everything's that's presented on the OST is on the complete release. In my opinion the complete release has better sound quality.

...

(by Trent)
==================================================

Some additional clarification on "Star Trek: Nemesis" from Mr. Matessino himself:

The only tracks that are exactly the same on the Deluxe Edition as on the original release:

My Right Arm
The Knife
Ideals
Lateral Run
A New Friend

The others are now the film mixes instead of the album mixes. Plus the above discussed End Credits.

Mike


[Posted by Mike Matessino on Dec 9, 2013 - 9:48 PM in this thread http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&threadID=100481&postID=1475145]

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 26, 2014 - 9:56 AM   
 By:   JB Fan   (Member)

If you want ALL that was on original album, here is additional note about First Contact.
Original album also contained two songs, which wasn't included in expanded edition.
In other words - if you want to get ALL music, you also need to get original albums for First Contact, Insurrection & Nemesis.

 
 Posted:   Jan 26, 2014 - 10:21 AM   
 By:   Warunsun   (Member)

If you want ALL that was on original album, here is additional note about First Contact.
Original album also contained two songs, which wasn't included in expanded edition.


Steppenwolf's Magic Carpet Ride and Roy Orbison's Ooby Dooby aren't exactly rare songs. smile MCR can be had on CD for $6 and OD for a mere $2 on CD. Even less for MP3's. It hardly makes the original First Contact soundtrack desirable if you own the new one.

 
 Posted:   Jan 26, 2014 - 12:19 PM   
 By:   Trent B   (Member)

Regarding the overlays towards the end of "Battle In The Mutara Nebula" from the FSM release, I consider that a corrected version. They are clearly there in the film, just for some weird reason they were left off on the original album. I like having those there.

Well, the blaster beam “whine” at the end of The Meld isn’t on TMP (yes, it’s in an extra track but not in the score proper) and there’s that percussion in Generations when Kirk takes command that isn’t anywhere. Neither of those were originally intended by the composer, as I understand it.


I think Ford Thaxton posted about the percussion in "Harriman and The Ribbon" from Generations saying it was something that the music editors for the film did themselves and something that McCarthy never did. It was something done AFTER the score had been recorded so hence it not being rightfully included.

 
 Posted:   Mar 23, 2015 - 2:47 PM   
 By:   Juanki   (Member)


Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Jerry Goldsmith)

The La-La Land version has almost everything that appeared on previously releases (a few tracks from the 1999 edition are different takes, but with very minor variations), and the sound mix is much superior to anything that came before it. Most of the original soundtrack cues were different takes from the original, the OST is included (which would be identical in all ways to the Columbia CD). The 1999 version may be a slightly more concise listening experience, but it is trumped not only by the better sound on the La-La Land edition, but by the sheer wealth of fascinating material, not just more cues from the film but the original versions of several musical setpieces composed before the iconic theme was finalized.


I own La-La Land version and the 1999 edition. Was thinking of selling the last one but I see there are differences between both releases. Thanks for the info, I also find "Ilia's Theme" from 1999 doesn't appear on La-La Land's. Am I wrong? Best.

 
 Posted:   Mar 23, 2015 - 3:00 PM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

You are wrong. The LLL CD has all 4 versions of the Overture / Ilia's Theme.

The 3 minute one you're used to from the OST or 1999 expansion is on disc 2, track 15.

 
 Posted:   Mar 31, 2015 - 8:00 AM   
 By:   Juanki   (Member)

ok thanks. So there is no point keeping the Sony if you own the LaLaLand, true?

 
 Posted:   Mar 31, 2015 - 8:26 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

The end credits has some bell sounds that are more audible there than on the original LP or LLL set, but that's about it.

 
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