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 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 4:02 AM   
 By:   Joe E.   (Member)

Beck's score is fine, but the film is embarassing -- a weak attempt at ressurecting the Menken/Ashman glory, but just falling flat into maudlin pap. The worst Disney film since the mid 80s.

To see that kitschy affair receive the award over a masterpiece like THE WIND RISES -- Miyazaki's LAST film too -- was borderline offensive.


It may very well be inferior to The Wind Rises (which I haven't seen), but Frozen is an important breakout movie for Disney's animated fairytales in a number of ways. I have my own quibbles with it, like the hip dialogue, but that's just a personal preference, and I recognize the movie's quality and its important balance of breaking away from established Disney traditions in some ways while embracing them in others. By Disney standards, it's different in ways that are long overdue, and also happens to be entertaining - possibly not to everyone, but clearly to a great many people - and that's worth noticing and rewarding.

The fact that this movie shifts away from so many of the standard tropes of Disney's princess-oriented fairytales is significant. For once, the central relationship is not between a princess and her prince, but between two sisters, and the central female characters both have their own drives and agency. There is also a romance, but it proves more of a side story, with a genuinely surprising twist, and even with that it doesn't overwhelm what is ultimately the core story, that of the sisterly queen and princess. For Disney, that's actually a big deal, and heck, even if one doesn't personally care for the movie, it's extremely encouraging that a movie that breaks so cleanly away from Disney's usual princess tropes has done so well, as it gives the studio a clear mandate to make future movies that offer more for their female characters (and female viewers, and female filmmakers).

I will say, though, that the voters really ought to see all the nominees before casting their votes - not just here, but for every category - and that might have served Miyazaki better.

Re: Gravity... the score did serve the movie very well. I'm a little surprised the Academy went with it, but I think it was a fair choice, at least with regards to how the score works in the movie and not as a standalone composition (and that's really the important thing, after all).

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 4:31 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

When it became clear that most of the awards were going to 12 Years A Slave and Gravity it was 100% guaranteed that the "Original score" award would go that way too. 12 Years A Slave wasn't nominated, so Gravity got it.

That's how the Oscars work.

The other composers needn't have even turned up. They stood no chance.

Fortunately, in this case, Gravity was an excellent score, and served the film perfectly. But it wouldn't have mattered, it would have won either way.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 6:16 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)



Is there ever really much competition when it comes to animated films? And it is so saturated and bloated. Its usually Disney and Pixar fighting themselves, as they are both the same company. The only other big company that does animated films is Dreamworks.

Considering animated films are targeted for kids and kids like animated films and parents need to entertain them and parents need to go to these films as well, of course animated films make lots of money. I certainly don't think because an animated film makes lots of money it must not good. Not today anyway.


Animated movies that were not successful in the recent year;

Free Birds
Nut Job

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 6:25 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)


Well, this year both THE WIND RISES and ERNEST AND CELESTINE were up against the Disney/Pixar/Dreamworks domination. And both of them far superior to the latter's output.



Yeah, but naturally the guys with the bigger marketing and distribution budgets do better. That's why I agree just because your film made a lot of money and won a few awards doesn't mean you are better than the other guy's.


There have been a lot of animated movies from large studios that spent a lot of money on the film, and the marketing and distribution that totally failed. These films do not succeed because of marketing, they succeed because people like them.

Mars Needs Moms is the best example of this, it was a $150 million production and was very well marketed. It only made $38 million.

The fact is that most people simply enjoy Frozen as a pure entertainment, and will watch it and re-watch it, whereas they will not see or enjoy Wind Rises or Celestine.

It is easy to write off the billion dollars for Frozen as 'just money' but it got there because people like it, a lot, and they are watching it two and three times.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 7:55 AM   
 By:   joan hue   (Member)

I didn't have a real emotional investment into any of the film scores nominated this year, so I guess I didn't really care who won at this point.

I'm still pondering Loren's comment. I do understand "no-modern-music-adepts." Some people won't give current music a chance or a listen, and some here won't give older music any chance or a listen. What I don't get is the comment, "my dear fellow Williams talibans." What the heck does that mean?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 8:14 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

I didn't have a real emotional investment into any of the film scores nominated this year, so I guess I didn't really care who won at this point.

I'm still pondering Loren's comment. I do understand "no-modern-music-adepts." Some people won't give current music a chance or a listen, and some here won't give older music any chance or a listen. What I don't get is the comment, "my dear fellow Williams talibans." What the heck does that mean?



Joan, I think what it means is, ---if you are one of the many people that thinks John Williams is a great composer and you look down upon the RC crowd you are a radical terrorist.

You know, it is so politically incorrect and intolerant and sorta horrible to say that a tremendously talented, adored, successful and prolific composer is terrific and great and superior to a computer programming sound designer

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 8:33 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

I mentioned Loren's inner struggle in another thread.
He states (or stated) in his profile that he adored the music of John Williams but now hates it's sugary/schmaltzy sound, but he still buys every new score by him.
I think it has more to do with a battle with himself than anything else.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 8:44 AM   
 By:   joan hue   (Member)

Thank you, Ado and Kev for your insights. Some things are making sense now.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 9:10 AM   
 By:   arthur grant   (Member)




It may be common knowledge here but I think it's worth pointing out (or reminding ourselves) that the NOMINATIONS in each category are exclusively made by those in that particular branch of the Academy. In other words, actors exclusively nominate actors, the music branch nominates the music nominees etc.. However, ALL WINNERS can be voted on by EVERYBODY (the exceptions being a few categories where a voter is required to see the film nominated). This might also help some (no matter what their opinion is on anything) alleviate their bafflement over the results.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 9:22 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

AND, it has been stated and noted in other outlets and interviews, that some Academy members don't even fill the forms in themselves and there have been reports of their children filling in the nominations!!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 9:37 AM   
 By:   arthur grant   (Member)

AND, it has been stated and noted in other outlets and interviews, that some Academy members don't even fill the forms in themselves and there have been reports of their children filling in the nominations!!

Sadly, I can verify that as a fact with one example from long ago. I went to High School with Jerry Lewis' son who told me that his Dad asked him which film should win Best Picture because he hadn't seen any of them. His son said "The French Connection" and so that's what Jerry voted for. Maybe not exactly what you said but pretty close.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 5, 2014 - 10:03 AM   
 By:   arthur grant   (Member)

In a case like Frozen Hollywood is obviously not wrong. It's a financial and critical success. It has won a plethora of awards, including 2 Oscars. When you have BOTH things in your favor you are not a wretched film. It's simple basic facts.

There is nothing wrong with disliking a movie but berating it when things called "facts" get in the way of your personal tirade then YES one should be called out on their own words.

Then again, this is a message board where pesky things like "facts" get in the way of one's own opinion.

MV



Sorry but the only fact that I'm aware of when it comes to art criticisms is that there are none.
Thor stated his opinion AND gave reasons which in turn you are entitled to criticize as well. But money earned, popularity, everybody in Hollywood thinks this or that, are way closer to a personal tirade than meaningful debate let alone "facts". And I'm really sorry if you think my statement here is hateful because "There is way too much hate on this board" is a remark I agree with. It is contrary to my intention here.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 6, 2014 - 2:48 AM   
 By:   riotengine   (Member)


Well, this year both THE WIND RISES and ERNEST AND CELESTINE were up against the Disney/Pixar/Dreamworks domination. And both of them far superior to the latter's output.


The Wind Rises was distributed by Disney, so they had two horses in that race.

Greg Espinoza

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2014 - 12:21 AM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Anyone hearing the song from FROZEN for the first time IN THAT PERFORMANCE!!! would be appalled, cos it sounded crap!
I'm not saying it is (or going to be) a timeless classic (and all those timeless classics quoted also weren't AT THE TIME, that sh!t takes time and people growing up cloaked in nostalgia), but heard on the album and within the film, it's a pretty strong tune and very memorable too!



Anyone who hasn't seen the song in the film can judge for themselves. I think the song needs to be thought of more as a Broadway show tune than a movie song, and the film performance makes the best case for the song.



I do agree, however, that the song could use a better ending.

The following is from Billboard (26 February 2014).

"Disney's unstoppable soundtrack to "Frozen" returns to No. 1 on the Billboard 200, collecting its fifth nonconsecutive week atop the list.

"Frozen" has now earned the most weeks at No. 1 for a soundtrack since "Titanic" racked up 16 straight weeks at No. 1 in 1998. It ruled the list on the charts dated Jan. 24 through May 9 that year.

"This week's Billboard 200 reflects the tracking week ending Feb. 23, where the "Frozen" album sold 89,000 copies (down 11%), according to Nielsen SoundScan. A week ago, it was No. 2 with 100,000. Last week's No. 1 album, Eric Church's "The Outsiders," falls to No. 2 in its second week with 74,000 (down 74%).

"Since the Billboard 200 began using SoundScan sales data on May 25, 1991, only five soundtracks have spent at least five weeks at No. 1: "Frozen," "Titanic," "Waiting to Exhale" (five weeks in 1996), "The Lion King" (10 weeks in 1994 and 1995) and "The Bodyguard" (20 weeks in 1992 and 1993). (The last film soundtrack to net four weeks at No. 1 was "Bad Boys II" in 2003.)

"The all-time champ for the most weeks at No. 1 for a soundtrack in the history of the Billboard 200 is "West Side Story," with 54 weeks at No. 1 in 1962 and 1963. (It also owns the record for the most weeks at No. 1 for any album.)

"The "Frozen" soundtrack is currently in its 13th week on the Billboard 200, and has spent the last eight straight weeks lodged in one of the top two positions."

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2014 - 12:46 AM   
 By:   CindyLover   (Member)

The surprise for me was the song from Frozen. I hadn't heard it before. And all I'd read about it would have led me to believe that it was the greatest song since the heyday of Menken and Ashman. Color me surprised when I heard wannabe pop drivel, tuneless, with awful "empowerment" lyrics and - no ending. If that's someone's idea of a great song, count me out.

I'm not saying you're wrong... just that no one agrees with you.


I wouldn't say no one agrees with him. Just not enough to make a real difference.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2014 - 12:49 AM   
 By:   CindyLover   (Member)

The fact that this movie shifts away from so many of the standard tropes of Disney's princess-oriented fairytales is significant. For once, the central relationship is not between a princess and her prince, but between two sisters, and the central female characters both have their own drives and agency. There is also a romance, but it proves more of a side story, with a genuinely surprising twist, and even with that it doesn't overwhelm what is ultimately the core story, that of the sisterly queen and princess. For Disney, that's actually a big deal, and heck, even if one doesn't personally care for the movie, it's extremely encouraging that a movie that breaks so cleanly away from Disney's usual princess tropes has done so well, as it gives the studio a clear mandate to make future movies that offer more for their female characters (and female viewers, and female filmmakers).

To quote Lady Gaga, "Applause, applause, applause..."

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2014 - 5:07 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

I wonder how Chris Beck is doing from all this?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2014 - 5:21 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

I also think the song ends how it should. She's slamming the door on the outside world so the abrupt end
and line make sense. It serves the scene and the film. Thanks for the link Bob, wonderful sequence.

 
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