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 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 7:38 AM   
 By:   Ian J.   (Member)

In pursuit of my understanding of things compositional, can anyone enlighten me as to what time signature Jerry Goldsmith used for the beginning of the Main Title of Capricorn One?

It certainly doesn't feel like 4/4.

TIA

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 7:49 AM   
 By:   Matt S.   (Member)

In pursuit of my understanding of things compositional, can anyone enlighten me as to what time signature Jerry Goldsmith used for the beginning of the Main Title of Capricorn One?

It certainly doesn't feel like 4/4.

TIA


It uses alternating measures of 3/4 and 5/8. The 5/8 bar has a 3+2 subdivision.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 7:53 AM   
 By:   Ian J.   (Member)

Thanks.

How capable are professional orchestral musicians in dealing with that kind of time signature switching? Is it something they'd be familiar with and take in their stride, or would they complain and grumble and try to avoid it?

 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 9:07 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

How capable are professional orchestral musicians in dealing with that kind of time signature switching? Is it something they'd be familiar with and take in their stride, or would they complain and grumble and try to avoid it?

I'm not a musician but since changing signatures and using compound signatures is hardly an extraordinary gesture, I would have thought it would be a case of that if they couldn't do it, they wouldn't be qualified to sit in the orchestra.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 9:13 AM   
 By:   Matt S.   (Member)

How capable are professional orchestral musicians in dealing with that kind of time signature switching? Is it something they'd be familiar with and take in their stride, or would they complain and grumble and try to avoid it?

I'm not a musician but since changing signatures and using complex signatures is hardly an extraordinary gesture, I would have thought it would be a case of that if they couldn't do it, they wouldn't be qualified to sit in the orchestra.


This.

Especially for the freelance Hollywood players, who are required to play complex action music after a single sight reading, that kind of thing should be second nature.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 10:21 AM   
 By:   Great Escape   (Member)

It's actually much easier for a musician counting in their head and following along in the music than it is for the conductor, I believe. It's so natural for your hand to keep repeating the same pattern rather than to chronically change meters that it must be hard to not slip an extra measure in the old meter instead of changing.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 10:58 AM   
 By:   chromaparadise   (Member)

In pursuit of my understanding of things compositional, can anyone enlighten me as to what time signature Jerry Goldsmith used for the beginning of the Main Title of Capricorn One?

It certainly doesn't feel like 4/4.

TIA


It uses alternating measures of 3/4 and 5/8. The 5/8 bar has a 3+2 subdivision.


While I agree with you that it plays 3/4-5/8, Doug Fake in his CAPRICORN ONE liner notes states that it's 11/8 (essentially the same thing). Without seeing the Main Title sketch, I'm still curious to know exactly what's written by Goldsmith.

 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 12:23 PM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)


I would think it's notated consistently in something/8 -- either 6/8+5/8 or 11/8 -- so as to avoid switching back and forth between eighth note and quarter note rhythmic values.

Lukas

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 1:45 PM   
 By:   Mike_H   (Member)

From JoAnn Kane

 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 2:45 PM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)

I would think it's notated consistently in something/8 -- either 6/8+5/8 or 11/8 -- so as to avoid switching back and forth between eighth note and quarter note rhythmic values.

Lukas


I stand corrected!!!!
lk

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 3:55 PM   
 By:   nerfTractor   (Member)

Wow, there you have it! If only all things in life could be answered in such an authoritative (and incredibly cool) way.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 4:00 PM   
 By:   Mike_H   (Member)

JoAnn Kane's twitter page is a treasure trove of things like this. There's some really great 'blasts from the past' that pop up often.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 4:36 PM   
 By:   Ian J.   (Member)

A heartfelt thanks to all who've replied, but the real prize must go to Mike_H for forwarding the JoAnn Kane image smile

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2014 - 8:49 PM   
 By:   peterproud   (Member)

In that pile, about five cues in, I see "Breakout"....god, would I *love* to see that manuscript!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2014 - 12:24 AM   
 By:   jb1234   (Member)

Thanks.

How capable are professional orchestral musicians in dealing with that kind of time signature switching? Is it something they'd be familiar with and take in their stride, or would they complain and grumble and try to avoid it?


These are people who have been trained on Stravinsky, among other 20th century classical greats. While I'm not saying Goldsmith is a walk in the park to sight-read (he loved his switching time signatures), there's nothing there that a professional session musician can't handle.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2014 - 4:59 PM   
 By:   JEC   (Member)

It's time for someone to reissue the Intrada expanded edition.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2014 - 5:11 PM   
 By:   Matt S.   (Member)

I would think it's notated consistently in something/8 -- either 6/8+5/8 or 11/8 -- so as to avoid switching back and forth between eighth note and quarter note rhythmic values.

Lukas


I stand corrected!!!!
lk


The "switching" back and forth really isn't an issue at all. In most cases, a 5/8 measure is really a two-beat measure, with either a longer first or second beat. Similarly, 7/8 measures are typically three beat measures, with one of the three beats half again as long as the others. It's a little awkward to describe in words, but to a trained musician it's a piece of cake.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2014 - 9:22 PM   
 By:   jb1234   (Member)



The "switching" back and forth really isn't an issue at all. In most cases, a 5/8 measure is really a two-beat measure, with either a longer first or second beat. Similarly, 7/8 measures are typically three beat measures, with one of the three beats half again as long as the others. It's a little awkward to describe in words, but to a trained musician it's a piece of cake.


It's also much, much easier to read than a single measure of 11/8 would be.

 
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