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Well, you've got both of Peckinpah's greatest with 'The Wild Bunch' being the ultimate "kiss off" for the genre.
I think maybe Leone's 'Once Upon A Time In The West' should also make the cut.
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Posted: |
Jul 25, 2014 - 12:13 PM
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By: |
Richard-W
(Member)
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Counting from 1 to 10 (1961-1970) here is my short list of the best westerns of the 1960s:
1970 The Wild Rovers -- directed by Blake Edwards.
1970 Monte Walsh -- written by Jack Schaffer, directed by William A. Fraker.
1970 A Man Called Horse -- written by Dorothy M. Johnson, directed by Elliot Silverstein.
1969 The Wild Bunch -- written by Waldo Green, directed by Sam Peckinpah.
1969 True Grit -- written by Charles Portis / Marguerite Roberts, directed Henry Hathaway.
1969 Tell Them Willie Boy Is Here -- written and directed Abraham Polonsky.
1968 The Stalking Moon -- directed by Robert Mulligan.
1967 Hour of the Gun -- written by Leon Uris, directed by John Sturges.
1967 Hombre -- written by Elmore Leonard, directed by Martin Ritt.
1966 The Professionals -- directed by Richard Brooks.
1966 Duel at Diablo -- directed by Ralph Nelson.
1965 The Shooting -- written by Carole Eastman, directed by Monte Hellman.
1965 Ride In the Whirlwind -- written by Jack Nicholson, directed by Monte Hellman.
1963 Hud -- contemporary western written by Larry McMurtry, directed by Martin Ritt.
1962 Ride the High Country -- directed by Sam Peckinpah.
1962 Lonely Are the Brave -- written by Dalton Trumbo, directed by David Miller.
1961 One-Eyed Jacks -- directed by Marlon Brando.
More outstanding westerns of the decade:
1970 The Ballad of Cable Hogue -- directed by Sam Peckinpah.
1969 Support Your Local Sheriff -- directed by Burt Kennedy.
1969 Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid -- directed by George Roy Hill.
1969 100 Rifles -- directed by Tom Gries.
1968 Will Penny -- directed by Tom Gries.
1968 The Shakiest Gun In the West -- Don Knotts comedy directed by Allan Rafkin.
1968 Bandolero! -- directed by Andrew V. McLaglen.
1967 Waterhole # 3 -- directed by William A. Graham.
1966 Stagecoach -- remake directed by Gordon Douglas.
1966 Nevada Smith -- directed by Henry Hathaway.
1966 The Appaloosa -- directed by Sidney J. Furie.
1965 The Sons of Katie Elder -- directed by Henry Hathaway.
1965 The Rounders -- contemporary western comedy from director Burt Kennedy.
1964 Rio Conchos -- directed by Gordon Douglas.
1962 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance -- directed by John Ford.
1962 Geronimo -- directed by Arnold Laven.
1961 The Last Sunset -- directed by Robert Aldrich.
1961 Gold of the 7 Saints -- directed by Gordon Douglas.
1961 The Comancheros -- directed by Michael Curtiz.
I know a lot of you are choosing spaghetti westerns, but spaghetti westerns are essentially foreign art films. They are not Westerns. Not really. Although I concede that Once Upon A Time In the West (1958) is a cross-over, a brilliant, eloquent tone-poem of a film. I've seen 159 spaghetti westerns, and keep them on my shelf, but they are mostly artificial, trivial programmers that wallow in nihilism and sadism with little if any expression of the American west, dramatic content, subtext, meaning, context or merit.
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as im among friends who know their onions...
1 "...cmon TC, help me get his boots..!"
2 "...so only you know your half of the secret?"
3 "...looks like we're ...shy one horse..."
4 "...Generosity. that was my first mistake...!"
5 "...there isnt anyone tough enough to go up against that killer, eh? "
6 "...John W Burns!!!..."
7 "...Hey. i got a question, How you planning to get back down that hill...?"
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richard, if you have seen 159 italian westerns then you sure have watched some shit with very good music!!
it doesnt matter that several hundred were garbage with plots that were contrived or strung out or didnt add up- its the 40 or so that were decent that you need to consider, particularly the Leone ones and the more serious political stuff like Big silence and face to face, professional gun and a bullet for the general and then guns for san sebastian, django, etc. certainly both the films and the music of the serious 60s ones were much better than the comedy and light hearted ones that followed in the 70s.
cant diss and dismiss a whole genre based on the weaknesses of the worst examples mate.
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Well, of course, the four Leone westerns (Fistful, For a, GBU, Once Upon), Peckinpah's Ride the High Country and The Wild Bunch, the transplanted Seven Samurai remake The Magnificent Seven, Ford's The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, John Wayne in two 1969 westerns The Undefeated and True Grit, the winking Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid -also from '69, Richard Brooks' The Professionals, How the West Was Won, Will Penny, and two offbeat choices: The 7 Faces of Dr. Lao and the modern Lonely are the Brave.
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If 'Once Upon A Time In The West' isn't a Western, would someone please explain what it is !
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joany - good choices as ever, great taste!
dont get me started on "part western- part spaghetti western!"! purleeeze!!
what is that? is that like a half man half biscuit???
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There is only one BEST/FAVORITE of the 1960s, for me - THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE.
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If 'Once Upon A Time In The West' isn't a Western, would someone please explain what it is !
Happily, Richard has already explained this! Once Upon a Time in the West is "is a cross-over, a brilliant, eloquent tone-poem of a film" that is part western, part spaghetti western ("foreign art films . . . mostly artificial, trivial programmes that wallow in nihilism and sadism with little if any merit").
I understand what you are trying to say, but first of all, 'spaghetti-western' is really a disgraceful word.
And it's not because the movie hasn't all of the cliché American views of a western, that this film shouldn't be considered a 'Western', because it is ! And a bloody good one !
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oh goodness, dont bring it up, groovemeister, he'll be back!!!
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Posted: |
Jul 29, 2014 - 3:58 PM
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By: |
Richard-W
(Member)
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richard, if you have seen 159 italian westerns then you sure have watched some shit with very good music!!
it doesnt matter that several hundred were garbage with plots that were contrived or strung out or didnt add up- its the 40 or so that were decent that you need to consider, particularly the Leone ones and the more serious political stuff like Big silence and face to face, professional gun and a bullet for the general and then guns for san sebastian, django, etc. certainly both the films and the music of the serious 60s ones were much better than the comedy and light hearted ones that followed in the 70s.
cant diss and dismiss a whole genre based on the weaknesses of the worst examples mate.
I'm not your mate, but your comments deserve an answer.
First you call spaghetti westerns sh it and garbage, then you tell me I can't dismiss a whole genre.
What makes you think I dismiss the genre based on the weaknesses of the worst examples when I haven't given you any examples?
I don't dismiss spaghetti westerns. But I do dismiss any thought that they are westerns. The American west happened in America, not in Italy. Cosplay / Costume play in front of a camera without meaning, purpose, subtext or cultural identity does not make a western. It's just cosplay in front of a camera. If you want to watch a western, watch JESSE JAMES (1939), STAGECOACH (1939), Cecil B. DeMille's WELLS FARGO (1940), THE MARK OF ZORRO (1940), Hawks' RED RIVER (1948), Ford's THE SEARCHERS (1956), HOW THE WEST WAS WON (1963), Ford's THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE (1963), TRUE GRIT (1969), Peckinpah's PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID (1973) and many others. They're not just westerns, they're about something; they're about the country in which the West took place. The stories derive from a way of life that is uniquely American. The Italians couldn't tell those stories. If you want to watch cosplay / Costume Play, watch A FISTFUL OF DOLLARS, DJANGO, SARTANA, SABATA, FIVE MAN ARMY, etc etc etc. The props and acoutrements and names of places and iconography are put through the paces, but the context and content of the western is not present in these films.
For the record my favorite spaghetti westerns are ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST (1968), CEMETERY WITHOUT CROSSES aka THE ROPE AND THE COLT (1969) and THE BIG GUNDOWN (1966) which has recently been restored. I also liked DEATH RIDES A HORSE (1968) and TEPEPA (1970). THE GREAT SILENCE (1968) is really a Spanish film. I like it very much even though it's a bummer. There is also one scene -- Lee Van Cleef's first scene -- in THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY that's brilliant. but if it weren't for the music I'd find the rest of the film relentlessly tedious.
Likewise, what spaghetti western buffs call "Zapata westerns" are not really about Zapata or the Mexican revolution at all. There is not one thread of similarity between the so-called Zapata westerns and the great dramas and war epics Mexico has made about its revolution. If you want to see the real thing, watch the Mexican films PRISONER 13 (1933), COMPADRE MENDOZA (1934), LET'S GO WITH PANCHO VILLA (1936), ENAMORADA (1948), LA ESCONDIDA (1956), THIS WAS PANCHO VILLA (1957), CAFE COLON (1958), LA CUCARACHA (1959), PANCHO VILLA AND VALENTINA (1960), CUANDO ¡VIVA VILLA! ES LA MUERTE (1960), and LA SOLDADERA (1967) for starters. In contrast, Zapata spaghetti westerns like A BULLET FOR THE GENERAL (1966), FACCIA A FACCIA (1967), TEPEPA (1970), and DUCK YOU SUCKER (1971) may use the Mexican revolution as a setting, but in content, in subtext and in cultural identity they are actually about European fascism; about the peasants over-throwing the fascist dictators who oppressed Italy and Spain. A very different reality than what happened in Mexico and in what Mexicans tell about in their own films. Which is not to say they can't relate to a cool spag, it's just not the same thing.
American westerns and spaghetti westerns are different. That's a fact, not an opinion. When I was growing up and going to the movies all the time audiences recognized the fact that spaghetti westerns were not like American westerns and were not even remotely concerned with the American west. Everybody understood that (it was also a time when audiences flocked to see foreign art films with subtitles; subtitles were expected, if not demanded). Even Christopher Frayling says that spaghetti westerns are imitations of American westerns in his books. Other film historians think so, too. Not to mention the Italian filmmakers themselves in commentaries and interviews, who have stated their spaghetti westerns are different from American westerns. To lump them all together as the same thing is just thoughtless.
I find it discouraging how dismissive and disdainful so many American film buffs are of the genre their own country created out of their own national experience. It dismays me when American film buffs know more about a handful of spags than all the great westerns their own country has produced. It dismays me when people prefer a hollow imitation to the substantive real thing, like rolling out linoleum made to look like wood instead of using real wood for a floor.
I own 159 spaghetti westerns on DVD, DVD-R, quite a number of region 2 DVDs, and blu-ray. I've spent many years studying the spaghetti western. I'm old enough to have seen The Man With No Name films when the Smithtown Indoor-Outdoor Drive-In on Long Island showed the trilogy in 1971, and I looked in on the trilogy at repertory screenings a few times up through the 1980s. I saw DUCK YOU SUCKER when it was new, and never missed a repertory screening of ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST throughout the years. In my teens I played the soundtrack LP's of ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST and THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY incessantly and loud enough to rattle the windows. I saw many other spaghetti westerns in the theater, including
DEATH RIDES A HORSE
A LONG RIDE FROM HELL
A MINUTE TO PRAY A SECOND TO DIE
FIVE MAN ARMY
A REASON TO LIVE A REASON TO DIE
TEPEPA
RED SUN
the SABATA films
BARQUERO
DEAF SMITH AND JOHNNY EARS
MY NAME IS NOBODY
ZORRO with Alain Delon.
among others. There used to be a grindhouse on 42nd Street near Seventh Avenue in NYC where for a couple of dollars I could go in all day and watch three, four, five movies in a row and at least two of them would be spags.
I appreciate the gritty realism, the photography, the scenery, the usually beautiful and adventurous scores, and the overall Italian craftsmanship. Italian craftsmanship is second to none. Where the spaghetti western falls apart is in the story-telling. After giving 159 spags a chance, I still prefer the American western. The American western is a profoundly beautiful thing.
Listen to Robert Duvall:
"The English have Shakespeare, the French have Moliere,
the Russians have Chekov, the Argentines have Borges,
but the Western is ours -- from Canada down to the Mexican border."
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night x
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