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 Posted:   Aug 10, 2014 - 2:31 PM   
 By:   BornOfAJackal   (Member)

I don't have the old RSO or Arista releases to compare.

Obviously, the entire Ewok celebration was replaced for the 'special edition' release.

But I've also had the impression that, starting with the special edition, the beginning of the End Title (up until the start of the Ewok Theme) was also replaced by a better sounding replacement played with much more verve than in the original cut of the film.

Mike Matessino, you mastered the latest editions. What's the skinny?

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2014 - 3:07 PM   
 By:   mxmx   (Member)

I didn't master or do any audio work on them, just guided the assembly and sequencing process, but the "skinny" is that there was no clean end credits available from Jedi, only the album master with the "Ewok Celebration" overlap, so on the S/E release the first six bars of the "End Title" come from Empire.

Mike

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2014 - 4:16 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Apart from the RSO SW CD rehash of the LP, all I have of SW are the three SE versions. Not that I would have noticed those six bars are identical in episodes 5 & 6 because I wouldn't! Was it thought necessary to excise the Jedi entry due to damage or was it going to get the cut and paste treatment one way or the other? Interesting the traditional theme music, which blasts out as the last live-action frame shrinks to a point via a circular dissolve to make way for the title crawl, is so modular it can be shunted around like that.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2014 - 4:50 PM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

Pardon my ignorance, but I haven't seen the film since 1983 and am only vaguely aware that changes were made. This seems like a good time to educate myself. Do I understand that Lucas devised another ending without all those chirpy chattering critters on the soundtrack. Did Williams participate in the revisions? This sounds like it might have been an improvement. Is that the consensus view?

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2014 - 4:59 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

I celebrated that the lousy thing was finally over!

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2014 - 5:23 PM   
 By:   Jeff Eldridge   (Member)

Pardon my ignorance, but I haven't seen the film since 1983 and am only vaguely aware that changes were made. This seems like a good time to educate myself. Do I understand that Lucas devised another ending without all those chirpy chattering critters on the soundtrack. Did Williams participate in the revisions? This sounds like it might have been an improvement. Is that the consensus view?

For the 1997 Special Edition re-release of Return of the Jedi, Lucas asked Williams to create a new composition to replace the Ewok Celebration (aka "Yub Nub") from the original 1983 version:



with something less Ewok-y:



I don't know if there's a consensus that it improved the film, but it's probably less contorversial than changing Star Wars so that Greedo shot first...

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2014 - 5:50 PM   
 By:   Adm Naismith   (Member)

Of all the changes Lucas made to the first three movies, this is the one I consider a solid improvement.

One thing missing from the IV, V, & VI upon their original release was a certain lack of scope. We heard about the Empire, but only saw glimpses of the outskirts and far-flung outposts. The new coda of Jedi with people around the center of the Empire pulling down statues and such gave me a better sense of living under the Emperor.

I think it also made sense to change the music for that. No longer is it just the Ewoks and our heroes celebrating, but so many newly freed people. Hence, new music to illustrate the many different peoples celebrating.


That said, I like 'Ewok Celebration'. I think it has a little more character.

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2014 - 6:22 PM   
 By:   spielboy   (Member)

One thing missing from the IV, V, & VI upon their original release was a certain lack of scope. We heard about the Empire, but only saw glimpses of the outskirts and far-flung outposts. The new coda of Jedi with people around the center of the Empire pulling down statues and such gave me a better sense of living under the Emperor.

it was missing in all 3 films, agreed. Then why suddenly put those planets celebrating at the end of the third one???

it's more in order with the -awful- prequels than the original trilogy.


 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2014 - 7:22 PM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

One thing missing from the IV, V, & VI upon their original release was a certain lack of scope. We heard about the Empire, but only saw glimpses of the outskirts and far-flung outposts. The new coda of Jedi with people around the center of the Empire pulling down statues and such gave me a better sense of living under the Emperor.

it was missing in all 3 films, agreed. Then why suddenly put those planets celebrating at the end of the third one???

it's more in order with the -awful- prequels than the original trilogy.


I'm an old-school fan who was happy with this new ending, I loved finally getting a better look at the Galactic picture of the saga. I happen to really like the prequels and the major world-building accomplished by them to further established other corners of the STAR WARS galaxy, so now the end of JEDI works as a capper to six films, not just three.

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2014 - 7:43 PM   
 By:   Saul Pincus   (Member)

I happen to really like the prequels and the major world-building accomplished by them to further established other corners of the STAR WARS galaxy, so now the end of JEDI works as a capper to six films, not just three.

Yet its not the end of the story anymore, is it? We're told the upcoming Episode VII is a sequel to JEDI, which leads this old-school fan to support the film's original, more hermetic ending rather than the amateur-hour special edition version. (Amateur in visual construction, not music.)

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2014 - 8:23 PM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

I happen to really like the prequels and the major world-building accomplished by them to further established other corners of the STAR WARS galaxy, so now the end of JEDI works as a capper to six films, not just three.

Yet its not the end of the story anymore, is it? We're told the upcoming Episode VII is a sequel to JEDI, which leads this old-school fan to support the film's original, more hermetic ending rather than the amateur-hour special edition version. (Amateur in visual construction, not music.)


Well, yeah, you could make that case now, but production on this new crop of films only occurred in the last 2 years. When Lucas made these changes to the original films, in his mind he was wrapping a life's work project. He stated he never planned to make any more STAR WARS films and there was never a plan to sell Lucasfilm or that franchise to anyone or any studio. You can't really editorialize decisions he made almost 20 years ago as somehow inappropriate to the main narrative, when at that time the main narrative was only going to be six movies.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2014 - 8:44 PM   
 By:   wes3inPA   (Member)

I had never seen the revised version before, so it was interesting to compare the two. I have to admit I have a soft spot in my heart for the original. And there is something about the opening of the new segment's music, when the film segues to the Ewok encampment, that reminds me of "Survivor."

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2014 - 8:46 PM   
 By:   Saul Pincus   (Member)

Well, yeah, you could make that case now, but production on this new crop of films only occurred in the last 2 years. When Lucas made these changes to the original films, in his mind he was wrapping a life's work project. He stated he never planned to make any more STAR WARS films and there was never a plan to sell Lucasfilm or that franchise to anyone or any studio. You can't really editorialize decisions he made almost 20 years ago as somehow inappropriate to the main narrative, when at that time the main narrative was only going to be six movies.

True – but what is also true is that at time of JEDI's release, Lucas had no plans to actually make any more Star Wars films. He was done.

I think it's also plain that Lucas authoring an outline for the upcoming trilogy was really to sweeten the pot for Disney.

 
 Posted:   Aug 11, 2014 - 12:25 AM   
 By:   johnbijl   (Member)

Couple of things:

First of all, I liked the Ewok celebration. It's quirky and odd, yes, but also festive. Not as stiff and formal as what it was replaced with. And I get a kick out of it that the lyrics were written by the same guy who would have major hits with Pamela and Stop Loving You smile. (also: Lapti Nek > Jedi Rock)


Adm Naismith: One thing missing from the IV, V, & VI upon their original release was a certain lack of scope.

As Spielboy already said, it was missing in al three films. Obviously because of budget restrictions, the original Star Wars films lack scale -- and that's a good thing. The prequels *tried* to tell a story of politics and strategy of a full-universe war and failed miserably (I still would like to have seen it succeed). But, part of the succes of Star Wars is that it is about characters you like (or like to hate). Personalities. And not cardboard pawns in a full scale war. By keeping the story small, they kept it manageable for us.

Throwing in scenes of a larger universe without really to have seen it earlier, diminishes the story told. Are we really to believe that on Coruscant people are meekly waiting for three people and a wookie to kill the emperor? Or that while there are celebrations all over the civilized universe, the heroes of the revolution party on an unknown moon with frickin' teddy bears? There hasn't been a *hint* af a larger scale and at the end of it all, it appears way too sudden. And the ground rule of storytelling has always been: if it doesn't matter, don't show it.


Spielboy: It's more in order with the -awful- prequels than the original trilogy.

Visually, yes, as the view of Coruscant and Naboo were also seen in Episode I. But musically: it isn't. I would have thought that the new victory celebration-theme would pop up in the prequels as a theme for the republic or such. That way, there would have been a musical coherency. Now, the stately and restrained celebration is really an odd one out in the scores. In tone, only the snippet of Qui-Gon's theme we got comes close (making Victory Celebration even weirder than Leia's theme wink)

But than again, I would have thought that Williams would bring his brooding Boba Fett theme in for a march for the clones. But instead we got a rehash of the march already used for the battle droids in Episode I. Which are their enemies, for Grael sakes!


Saul Pincus: Yet its not the end of the story anymore, is it?

It never really was. Star Wars started out as an outline for nine films. Lucas choose to start with the middle part. True, the story changed (a damn lot!) over time, and Lucas obviously has gone back and forth on filming a sequel trilogy, but there always has been an outline for after the death of Vader, even up until at least 1983, so it seems. (Read up, if you like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_sequel_trilogy.)


P.S. Well spotted, BornOfAJackal! Nice!

 
 Posted:   Aug 11, 2014 - 6:52 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

One thing missing from the IV, V, & VI upon their original release was a certain lack of scope. We heard about the Empire, but only saw glimpses of the outskirts and far-flung outposts. The new coda of Jedi with people around the center of the Empire pulling down statues and such gave me a better sense of living under the Emperor.

it was missing in all 3 films, agreed. Then why suddenly put those planets celebrating at the end of the third one???

it's more in order with the -awful- prequels than the original trilogy.


The original trilogy was narrowly focused on Luke and the gang. Which was why we cared for the characters. I'm not a fan of the Ewok celebration or the music so I prefer the new cue, (slightly) but the additional scenes of the universe celebrating was jarring and unnecessary.

 
 Posted:   Aug 11, 2014 - 7:47 AM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)


...but the additional scenes of the universe celebrating was jarring and unnecessary.


And nonsensical.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 11, 2014 - 9:01 AM   
 By:   Kim Tong   (Member)

What about Sebastian Shaw's Anakin Skywalker being replaced by Hayden Christensen's Anakin Skywalker in the SE?
I was very unhappy with the loss of the Ewok Celebration.

 
 Posted:   Aug 11, 2014 - 1:46 PM   
 By:   digitalfreaknyc   (Member)

I still would like the film version of the new Victory Celebration.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 11, 2014 - 2:14 PM   
 By:   barryfan   (Member)

What about Sebastian Shaw's Anakin Skywalker being replaced by Hayden Christensen's Anakin Skywalker in the SE?
I was very unhappy with the loss of the Ewok Celebration.


That was silly if they weren't going to put Ewan Macgregor (sp) in for Obi Wan.


I am just glad to hear Darth Vader (and James Earl Jones !!!!!!) will be returning.

 
 Posted:   Aug 11, 2014 - 3:11 PM   
 By:   Warunsun   (Member)

I am just glad to hear Darth Vader (and James Earl Jones !!!!!!) will be returning.

Noooooooooooooooo!

(I couldn't help myself).

 
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