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 Posted:   Aug 14, 2014 - 11:02 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

I'm no fan of Dick, but for once I agree with the Daily Mail:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2709892/In-museum-far-far-away-Anger-reconstruction-Richard-III-s-armour-looks-like-STAR-WARS-stormtrooper.html


It's very funny and absurd. But it shows how modern myths get channelled and projected back into reality.


Actually, apart from the (fairly obviously DELIBERATE) armour colour-scheme, they've also cocked up on the helmet. The 'sallet' as that type of hat is called should sit further forward on the 'Mentenniere' (the big neck-bowl). This guy looks like the bald eagle from the Muppets, but with a huge underbite. Plus the Star Wars colour scheme makes the mentenniere look like a toilet bowl.

I'm sure Lucas et al are falling about in paroxysms.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 14, 2014 - 3:05 PM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

It was always a bad idea to let Leicester keep him. York Minster or Westminster Abbey were the only sensible options, now proven by the hurried tastelessness of this dumbed-down visitors' centre.

It seems that the playground mantra of "finders keepers" has traction after all.

 
 Posted:   Aug 15, 2014 - 3:37 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

I don't see how Westminster Abbey could be a legitimate destination. In a way, Shakespeare sums him up in the correct perception at the end of the play.

As for the discovery - that really is interesting. At some point I'd like to read up about that because the apparent intuition leading to the find, especially after such a long time had elapsed when others could have found the spot, beats the hell out of everything else. It's the perfect ghost story.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 15, 2014 - 4:17 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

I don't see how Westminster Abbey could be a legitimate destination. In a way, Shakespeare sums him up in the correct perception at the end of the play.



Is it possible that Shakespeare's play might not be completely historically accurate?!

As a king of England, Richard's entitled to be buried at Westminster Abbey, even with unresolved issues against his name. York would have been much the better solution, though, and the city elders would have afforded him a bit more dignity than appears to be the case in the place where he happened to be struck down.

You just have to look at the Jorvik viking visitors' centre to see how good a job could have been done ("My kingdom for a Norse"?)

TG

 
 Posted:   Aug 15, 2014 - 4:56 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

I agree his remains are of monumental import to history and the country. I'm not too well read up on the Wars Of The Roses, however, the true successor to the crown disappeared without trace while in Richards's charge. Almost unbelievably, that issue has never been properly resolved, yet the hand of Richard being involved as the causative reason his nephew vanished cannot really be doubted. He was a usurper and perhaps his fate imposes that stigma. Had he been the victor at Bosworth and had the chance to rule the country, then, who knows - it might have been a different story?

Any man who kills a member of his own extended family in order to gain accession and does so with such deliberation condemns himself on a charge of murder. Not only that, in this instance, the charge of traitor could have been upheld.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 15, 2014 - 4:59 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

Yes, yes, yes, but have you heard Morricone's Symphony for Richard III? Nobody who could evoke such a great score should be left to languish in Leicester!

 
 Posted:   Aug 15, 2014 - 5:14 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

My main thrust in posting this was the funny Star Wars connection. You just know the designers were having a laugh and did it deliberately... white on black as in the films. Handled the wrong way, a suit of armour can end up like a showroom car.

As regards Dicky, well, no amount of revisionism cancels out the murder of his nephews and his broken promise to his own brother to act as their protector. Nice he wasn't.

The 'intuition' thing made me wonder. When the Beeb aired their first TV documentary (then they revised it to bring out the scientific credentials) I at first thought the whole thing a tourism ploy, and doubted it all. I was particularly tickled by the reconstructed Dicky's apparent resemblance to the young Gavin Esler from Newsnight, if anyone remembers what he used to look like! At least one of the docus is still on YouTube.

Westminster, like St. Paul's, tends to be now for the great and good.

The problems with the tastelessness stem more from a sort of tacky 'visitor's centre' outlook nowadays that's easily more about the showcasing of the digital possibilities of the medium than the thing they try to educate about. Medium rather than message. The whole point of the sterile white armour of the stormtroopers was that they were clinical fascists and 'anonyomous' drones. That's not the colourful, if ruthless aesthetic of 15th Century noblemen. Again, the public are patronised.

What about a Henry VII item with a light-sabre?

 
 Posted:   Aug 15, 2014 - 6:33 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

I haven't had the pleasure of Morricone's symphony to Richard III. And to propagate William's sense of Star Wars heraldry, I'd say Dicky was definitely predisposed towards Sith and not Jedi philosophy.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 15, 2014 - 9:50 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

As regards Dicky, well, no amount of revisionism cancels out the murder of his nephews and his broken promise to his own brother to act as their protector. Nice he wasn't.



Unless you have access to information down your way that nobody else has seen, the evidence remains circumstantial; rumour and innuendo. There are at least two Henrys (VII and Buckingham) who could be in the frame for the murders. In fact, there isn't any real evidence that they even WERE murdered.

As the actress said to the judge, you'll never get that to stand up in court.

 
 Posted:   Aug 15, 2014 - 10:10 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

The circumstantial evidence that convicted the Lindbergh killer/kidnapper was sufficient to strap him into the electric chair. I wasn't there in time and place, yet I believe he did it.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 15, 2014 - 10:24 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

The circumstantial evidence that convicted the Lindbergh killer/kidnapper was sufficient to strap him into the electric chair. I wasn't there in time and place, yet I believe he did it.


Oh my God, Cliff Richard's dead in the water!

 
 Posted:   Aug 15, 2014 - 12:02 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

I think I can see what you're driving at TG, however, that would be covered by innuendo - and out of date innuendo - at best. In any case, Richard III's extant injuries are more or less synonymous with those one would expect to see from Bosworth field. Things tie up in the flesh, as it were, as they do with recorded history. This is important because the discovery of Richard's body at this juncture in time allows anyone alive today to see how something historical has a high degree of overlap with incidental factual discovery - confirmation at it's best and certainly an event I never expected to be privileged to see in my lifetime.

 
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