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One of Ennio Morricone's greatest scores.
I've listened to the Amazon samples a couple of times and actually really llike what they've done here. Astonishing that they get even remotely close to the 1966 original recording.
As the original stereo score recordings appear to have been dumped, I'll happily pick this one up when it comes out on CD in October.
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Okay, what the Amazon cd is calling complete, consist of 39 cues. After creating my own version, from various copies supplied by collectors from around the world, they all were never complete. So, taking several versions and the dvd, I pulled all cues as heard within the film.
~ EFFECTS (MGM LOGO), SOUNDS OF NATURE, WIND, BIRDS, VOICES, CANNON FIRE
+ MUSIC NEVER RELEASED
* SCENES CUT FROM FILM
1. The Good, The Bad and the Ugly ~
2. The Ugly ~
3. The Sundown ~
4. Death of Steven/The Bad (Entering Baker's Bedroom) +
5. Death of Baker/The Bad +
6. A Price on Tuco's Head /Ugly rescued by the Good +
7. The Good (in the Shadows)/The Good part2 (‘Tuco, known as the rat')/An Angel (The Good) +
8. Escape on Horseback ~
Sunday January 4, 2009. Started at 2:15 p.m. ended at 6:10 p.m. extracted cues 9 to 31
9. Blonde forsakes Tuco in the Desert ~
10. Maria
11. The Rope Bridge
12. Rich and Lonely (Tuco in the Cave) *
13.Tuco's Henchmen in Hallway +
14. Tuco Surprises Blonde/Blonde Escapes +
15. The Fort * ~ +
16. Tuco in Pursuit of Blonde ~
17. The Desert ~ +
18. The Carriage of the Ghost ~
19. ‘Blondie Don't Die' ~
20. The San Antonia Mission ~
21. The Good (Recovering at Mission)
22. ‘My good friend is by my side to protect me'
23. Meeting with Padre Ramirez/Tuco and Blonde Leave Mission ~ +
24. Soldiers/Tuco's Mistake (the wrong army)/March into Prison Camp ~ +
25. Prison Camp at Betterville (effects) ~ +
26. The Story of a Solider
27. Different Partner Same Deal (Angel Eyes Recruits Blondie) +
28. Tuco taken to Military Train/Train Departs Station (effects) ~ +
29. Tuco's Escape/Tuco kills his guard/Tuco boards Train (effects)/A Bombed-out Town ~ +
Monday January 5, 2009. Started at 1:30 p.m. ended at 6:02 p.m. extracted cues 32 to 46
30. The One Armed Bandit (effects) ~ +
31. Tuco kills One Armed Bandit/‘Follow Him'/Blonde Surprises Tuco ~ +
32. ‘They're come looking for us.'/Blondie and Tuco/Showdown Against Angel Eyes Gang ~ +
33. Blondie and Tuco Surprised by Union Soldiers/The Union Captain ~ +
34. A Useless War ~ +
35. The Captain is Wounded ~ +
36. Tuco and Blondie Prepare to blow bridge ~ +
37. The Death of the Captain (noise on track) ~
38. Tuco and Blondie Cross the River/Wounded Soldier/The Soldier Dies ~ +
39. The Good (Preventing Tuco's Escape) ~ +
40. The Ecstasy of Gold ~
41. The Good (‘It'll be a lot easier with that') (effects) ~ +
42. The Ugly (‘Two can dig a lot faster than one ...dig') ~ +
43. The Trio (The Showdown - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly) ~ +
44. The Good threatens to hang the Ugly ~ +
45. Blondie leaves Tuco Hanging ~ +
46. Blondie Returns /Blondie Shoots Rope from Tuco's neck/The Ugly, The Bad and The Good/The Good, The Bad and The Ugly (End Credits) ~ +
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Thanks Melvin, for your cue list.
Much appreciated
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'Thanks Melvin, for your cue list.'
No problem...if I find time over the weekend, will attempt to check timing for each cue...
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'Thanks Melvin, for your cue list.'
No problem...if I find time over the weekend, will attempt to check timing for each cue...
Don't you have more work to do on OUTIW?
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Sorry about the delay Mr. Marshall...
Yes, still have more to do on OUATITW... have not look at cues for several years now. They are all there, just waiting for me to place onto cd...
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i borrowed this CD to check it out. i have to try and put aside my natural aversion to non-original music - like many of you back in the day i suffered Leroy Holmes and Alphonso and his magic organ plays western themes ! - and sadly the experience stays with me.
i agree with a lot of what you guys have said here. It is a brave effort and not entirely awful. like chris said, Good, bad and ugly bits. Although i would say its maybe more Bad and Ugly than good in some places. In one or two areas its close to the original and semi decent, and certainly not unlistenable, however what is awful is the trumpets, and as Bob mentioned, the electric guitar sounds plain wrong and just grates. My biggest problem is with the sound engineer - the mix is weird and things that should stand out are drowned. Either the man was sloppy or had simply not familiarised himself with what the original score should sound like.
Overall i understand the logic of doing something like Diabolique for collectors because its unavailable and sought after. And if only the LP version of GBU was available, then this CD would be more welcome. However, for me, because Daniel winkler and patrick ehresmann did such a fantastic job bringing out the expanded original, working with the restrictions of space and what Morricone will pass and what he wont, glueing short clips and tracks together to get it past him, i think what we have already is something wonderful. when you consider you are listening to Morricones A-team of the best perfrmers in Italy at the time -, Alessandroni, D'amario, edda, gianna, nicolai, de gemini, cosacchi, and the phenomenal trumpets of Lacerenza and Catania - then the original is something that should be cherished and universally recognised as unbeatable.
I guess there are two kinds of people in this world, those that dont mind reinterpretations and those that cant find love in their hearts for anything but the original!! ha ha
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Posted: |
Feb 8, 2015 - 1:03 PM
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By: |
Richard-W
(Member)
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Morricone,
Stop listening to BillCarson. He persistently misrepresents and misunderstands my postings. He feels free to insult me and attack me personally, and the moderator allows him to do so. We've been through this before. Perhaps he has a low IQ. Or maybe he's just a belligerent drunk. Who knows.
I grew up watching foreign films. I first saw the Dollars trilogy at the Smithtown Indoor-Outdoor Drive-In on Long Island when they played as "The Man With No Name Trilogy" in 1970 -- that was 45 years ago. In fact, I went back to see them several times that year. Later, when I became a drama and theater student, I saw many spaghetti westerns in the grindhouse on 42nd Street. They also screened at the Mini-Cinema in Uniondale, Long Island., and I would continue to go see them occasionally in repertory theaters when I moved to California. So I have a life-long acquaintance with spaghetti westerns and other foreign films. When I moved to California I used to go the New Beverly in downtown L.A., as well as the NuArt in West L.A. and the American Cinematheque in Hollywood (the Egyptian) and the Academy screenings in Beverly Hills. I grew up going to foreign films, to art films, Bergman and Truffaut, Leone and Argento etc, foreign exploitation films, vintage films, silent films, and invested years of my life in repertory screenings.
I'm not bothered by subtitles. Subtitles were never an issue in the 1960s and 1970s. Audiences went to foreign films expecting subtitles. People had no trouble with subtitles like they do now. But spagehtti westerns never had subtitles. Every spag I ever saw in a theater was dubbed, often rather poorly, into English. Bergmans and Truffaut, however, were subtitled.
With regard to the Morricone score, I bought the LP's back in the 1970s, insofar as they went, but CD's have surpassed them. I'm upgrading a few things now here and there of scores I've always liked, that's all. Again, BillCarson doesn't know what he talking about.
You mention Face to Face; I think you are referring Sergio Sollima's Faccia a Faccia (1967). I agree it is a very interesting film, interesting because it's subtext relates more to the European experience with facism than to anything that happened in the American west. It is a good film and interesting film. It uses the American western's motifs and trappings, but it's not really an American western. I believe that a distinction should be made between the American western, which is an original art form that came out of America's history and culture, and the spaghetti western, which is something else entirely. BillCarson doesn't like that; he says he hates American westerns. Spags are his whole life. That's his problem. Not mine.
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Posted: |
Feb 8, 2015 - 1:53 PM
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By: |
Morricone
(Member)
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You mention Face to Face; I think you are referring Sergio Sollima's Faccia a Faccia (1967). I agree it is a very interesting film, interesting because it's subtext relates more to the European experience with facism than to anything that happened in the American west. It is a good film and interesting film. It uses the American western's motifs and trappings, but it's not really an American western. I believe that a distinction should be made between the American western, which is an original art form that came out of America's history and culture, and the spaghetti western, which is something else entirely.
Interesting distinction but I am not sure I buy it for myself. Reminds me of when I was very young and heard this outcry about HIGH NOON. Many traditional western filmmakers (including John Ford) objected to the behavior of the citizens in that film, having been of frontier stock and not capable of this cowardly behavior. I simply saw it as what happens when people get older and more "civilized". But the more important elements were Fred Zinneman, a European director who started in Europe and ended his career in Europe, but gave us his version of the American experience while he was here AND Carl Foreman, who wanted to relate his McCarthy experience through a western. Did all this eliminate HIGH NOON from being a western? Sure the European western reflects the fascist experience they lived through, but how much different are they from the American counterpart about rich corrupt landowners in DUEL IN THE SUN or BROKEN LANCE and the like?
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Posted: |
Feb 8, 2015 - 2:32 PM
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By: |
Richard-W
(Member)
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Morricone,
The cultural distinction I make between American westerns and Italian imitations of American westerns is a very different thing from political objections to High Noon. And greedy landowners are not the only story. Do you see a difference between Swedish films and Italian films? Do you see a difference between French films and German films? Everybody else perceives the cultural difference that makes each country's films distinguishable from one another. In today's parlance, it's called celebrating diversity. Why denigrate American westerns -- a genre we invented out of our cultural experience -- because they're not spaghetti westerns? Or pretend they are the same thing? or not the same thing? can't American films be different from Italian films? What is it about westerns that makes people check their brains in at the door? I didn't intend to make a point of it, but since you asked ....
A tide of immigrants from Europe swept through the American west and intermingled with those born and raised here. Both kinds wrote voluminously about their experience in the American west, and some of them even made westerns (Al Jennings, Bill Tilghman and William S. Hart for example). So I have no problem with immigrants making westerns in Hollywood. However, judging by the content of 159 spaghetti westerns in my collection, the American experience was not on the minds of the Italian filmmakers. Understandably, they had preoccupations much closer to home. The geography of the American west, the iconic names and places, the mythology and the gear, gave the Italians a safe place to say what they wanted to say, or more often, to say nothing in particular except go through the motions of the genre to create product and stay employed. Which is no disgrace.
I admire High Noon and your perspective on the film mirrors my own. It's an important film firmly grounded in reality. Often times, pioneers avoided a fight, and did not help lawmen confront criminals. It also true that lawmen did not ask for help in confronting criminals. But the premise of the film is sound. Even if it weren't grounded, it's still one helluva good story. The American west was characterized by family feuds, county wars, mercantile wars, civil insurrections, land grant and ranch disputes, military-Indian conflicts, racial and ethnic divides, industrial over-reach, etc. Many American westerns were written by people who knew the history first-hand and second-hand. Few of the eyewitness accounts are political. Most are about getting through the day alive. John Wayne and John Ford over-reacted to High Noon, as did many other people when the film came out. Ford's westerns were very political -- and his message is not the only one I like -- but at the opposite end of the spectrum. Other American westerns explored political issues but weren't as high in profile -- take William Wellman's The Ox-Bow Incident (1943) and Elia Kazan's The Sea of Grass (1947) for example, both based on prize-winning novels by authors who knew the American west first-hand. You won't find a counterpart to those films in the spaghetti western. High Noon also has an inspired score by Dimitri Tiomkin, a Russian working in the American idiom. I can't recommend SAE's soundtrack highly enough. I wonder if the John Ford of 1964 who made Cheyenne Autumn (one of the most historically inaccurate westerns ever made) would have objected to High Noon as much as the John Ford of 1952. Ford's growing disillusionment is reflected in his films. In the end he and Zinnemann / Foreman were not so far apart, politically.
All of which has nothing whatsoever to do with Ennoi Morricone's score.
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BillCarson, please use the Ignore feature if that's what it takes to cease the battles with Richard-W. Richard, I assume you already have Bill on Ignore; if not, I recommend it.
Leave the grudges at the door, please.
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Posted: |
Feb 9, 2015 - 11:06 AM
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By: |
Richard-W
(Member)
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BillCarson, please use the Ignore feature if that's what it takes to cease the battles with Richard-W. Richard, I assume you already have Bill on Ignore; if not, I recommend it.
Leave the grudges at the door, please.
David, delete the offensive post.
Leaving that offensive post on the board is like having a puppy go the bathroom on your kitchen floor and then looking the other way whenever you pass by. Are you going to clean it up or not? Do you want everybody to see that pile on your floor?
We've been through these hoops before. BillCarson hurls invectives, retreats, you tell everybody to go on ignore, then he does it again, and so on. Meanwhile, there's a pile of shvt on the floor stinking the place up. Why don't you just stop him permanently?
Then let's get back to enjoying the score.
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The post is gone, so please calm down.
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