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 Posted:   Oct 16, 2014 - 2:04 PM   
 By:   Rnelson   (Member)

I bought this years ago and I remember after having watched it being extremely disappointed in the picture quality. Last night I pulled it out again hoping my reaction wouldn't be as negative but nothing's changed. It's still as grainy and and full of artifacts as I recalled. What suffers most are the UFO effects themselves. The image quality is appalling with harsh graininess and dirt everywhere. The whole reason I bought the Blueray on the first place was to see Douglas Trumbull's magical visuals in pristine clarity but I actually think my DVD copy is better.

Does anyone else have this disc and feel the same way? What's the story on why this received such a horrible Bluray transfer?

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2014 - 3:13 PM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)

I have it and totally agree. CE3K is one of my all time favorite movies and I was so disappointed with this blu ray.

I have no idea why the yransfer is so bad. I know that virtually all of the 70mm prints of the original release were in very poor condition (and that was even noticeable on the very first VHS release) but surely there must be a master negative somewhere that is either in prestige condition of at least is capable of being restored. After all, films far far older than CE3K have been brilliantly restored to Blu Ray so why not this?

The one thing I would say - as someone who has seen the film literally hundreds of times - some of the FX shots in the first two thirds of the film have always looked grainy. Years ago, when I read every singkevin thing I could find on the movie (and we are talking 30 years ago) I recall reading how they shot the UFO effects and im sure there was a difference in the film stock from that used for the live action football but I cannot recall the facts now. Perhaps that is something to do with it though.

 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2014 - 4:41 PM   
 By:   johnjohnson   (Member)

Perhaps I should finally get around to playing mine. I have the region 1 boxset that was released back in 2007. Sadly it's a digipack which I really don't like.


 
 Posted:   Oct 17, 2014 - 11:19 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

The idea was to shoot the effects in 65mm so that after the inevitability of optical duping from forcing a piece of film to endure multiple exposures, the grain structure would not detract from the live action 35mm footage blown up to 70mm for presentations. It was a simple expedient to give the film an even look throughout.

The problem of optical duping has always fascinated me. My best understanding of the problem is that unlike digital reproduction, when you take a photograph of a photograph you're not exactly going to get the same quality as the original. Also, the film is chemically degraded to a certain extent upon each exposure.

As far as I can tell, that should have absolutely nothing to do with the overall quality of any surviving film stock.

 
 Posted:   Oct 19, 2014 - 3:41 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

I thought I'd bump this with some thoughts I've had about the film that have never been aired to my knowledge.

Going back to the UFOs themselves, I recall from Cinefantastique each configuration was given an alphabetic designation. The three heralding UFOs that visit the landing strip flashing their light messages before the barnstorming sequence were the "saucer D" variety and we saw them in several shots. They remain amongst the most exposed of the UFO designs seen in the film, probably due to the "smiling face" aura they projected. The most intriguing one to me was "saucer H." That was the one that buzzed Neary on his first encounter at the crossing. After it turns off, Neary leans forward and cautiously looks up and we briefly see it in silhouette blotting out the overhead stars. The short rail, spider-leg like probes hanging downwards on it's edge were made memorable in that shot. In the Special Edition there is an additional aerial shot of Neary's pickup traversing the road and the saucer's shadow is seen crawling along in the same general direction as the pickup. It also appeared at the tail end of the barnstorming sequence. When Spielberg wrote his novelization, Lacombe reaches out to touch the ship. In the film we see Truffaut with his arm reaching upwards and Spielberg is obviously wanting to capture Lacombe in the process of touching saucer H. Unfortunately, the shot is complex from the post production vantage and you can see the ship is hovering much too high to be touched. Unlike the other UFOs which were mainly composed of bright and disembodied neon lighting effects, saucer H had solidity and surface detail as well as the "monster Klieg" surface lighting. There have been lots of pictures published of the Mothership, but I've never seen "saucer H" in any post production publicity shots. It reminded me of the Millennium Falcon to a large extent because it had a little rotating internal type of antenna thingy offset to one side, like the Falcon's dish. I'd wondered if pictures of it had been deliberately suppressed due to any possible resemblace. It would be kind of neat to see what it looked like as a miniature.

And one last thing. When saucer H makes that appearance at the barnstormer, John Williams gave it a resounding musical accompaniment. There are french horns playing a series of complex and rising figures in succession and the playing is particularly impressive.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 19, 2014 - 8:58 AM   
 By:   AndyDursin   (Member)

The film will always look grainy because of the various optical effects. IMO it's a great transfer -- they didn't lather it up with DNR to give it a smooth appearance, what you are seeing over the DVD is added detail. Many feel this is one of the strongest catalog Blu-Ray transfers around...I'd much rather see it presented this way instead of being filtered-over so it looks like a modern-day CGI effects film.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 19, 2014 - 11:08 PM   
 By:   Cooper   (Member)


Looks good to me, too. On a 42 inch set, at least. I'll throw it up on something larger to see how well it holds up, but I'm also under the impression any limitations are from a faithfully rendered source.

Best use of seamless branching ever: I hadn't seen the original theatrical cut since it was in theaters and I was driving myself crazy with Devils Tower caliber visions of a scene where Roy is haunted by yet another mountainous shape in the form of his bed pillow. I'd begun to doubt myself when it didn't show up in the deleted scenes on the Collector's Edition dvd. Alas, it was there. This...means something!

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2014 - 9:30 AM   
 By:   Rnelson   (Member)

The film will always look grainy because of the various optical effects. IMO it's a great transfer -- they didn't lather it up with DNR to give it a smooth appearance, what you are seeing over the DVD is added detail. Many feel this is one of the strongest catalog Blu-Ray transfers around...I'd much rather see it presented this way instead of being filtered-over so it looks like a modern-day CGI effects film.

Sheesh, I saw this 7 times in the theatre back in 77. I remember how brilliant the colors were and this transfer doesn't do them justice at all. Not to brag but I have a pretty good theatre room with an 80" 1080p screen. Pretty much anything else looks fantastic on it (from Forbidden Planet to Star Wars) but I really can't stand to watch this disk. The daylight shots all look fine but the night time stuff... not so much. Even in the early scenes where Gillian wakes up to look for Barry, who's just gone off into the woods, has distracting grain and artifacts. I just think a classic like this should look better for the sake of archival integrity.

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2014 - 2:08 PM   
 By:   dogplant   (Member)

In the Special Edition there is an additional aerial shot of Neary's pickup traversing the road and the saucer's shadow is seen crawling along in the same general direction as the pickup...

Interesting stuff, Grecchus. I forgot about those saucer designations, although I still have all my old magazines. Are you sure that shot of the shadow following Neary's truck was supposed to be Saucer H? Personally I always felt this shot was disappointing -- not because of its execution, but because as soon as I saw it, in the Special Edition theatrical release in 1980, I thought this was the shadow of the mothership. It was only my familiarity with the film that made me think that (I was obsessed: https://flic.kr/p/cCMBRs) but my gut reaction was, 'Too much, too soon!'

Seeing the mothership for the first time at Devils Tower was so dramatic in 1978, when I first saw the film, because it was unexpected. Up till then, the UFOs had been about the size of a car, or a bit bigger at the rail-crossing, and possibly outside the farmhouse when Barry opens the door. And I loved how Spielberg played that, holding back the reveal of this gargantuan craft till the climax of his film, and added to that, it ascends -- whereas most every other UFO descended from the sky. It was heart-stopping.

I just checked Don Shay's Q&A with Steven Spielberg in Cinefex 53, but he did not specifically address which ship casts its shadow over Neary, nor is it in the Special Edition details in Cinefex 11. I don't like this shadow shot, for reasons cited above, and I'm one of the purists who prefers the original movie in all regards. But maybe you're correct, and I've held a grudge against this shot for the wrong reasons!

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2014 - 4:06 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

It is saucer H in both instances. How so? Because as mentioned, the distinctive rail-like structure underhanging the same edge of the saucer is seen when Neary peers out of his pickup's windshield and we see exactly the same rail/probe structure again at the end at the landing strip barnstorming. It's making a deep humming noise and there's massive air disturbance as technicians struggle to stop recording equipment being magnetically sucked up to the ship as it hovers overhead (good job they're wearing sunglasses too! smile)

Now that it's been aired, there is an anomaly about the saucer H shot tagged onto the Special Edition release. That shadow hanging over Neary's truck as he races to the locations where the radio chatter is describing strange goings-on is actually oversize, IMO. There's a scaling issue there, I tend to think. It's not supposed to be that massive. It's basically circular with drooping antennae and probe-like structures hanging down all around it's circumference. Unfortunately, we never get to see it cleanly in the film but we do see it from the pov of the ground crew briefly and as Spielberg describes in his book, there's a strong impression of nuts n' bolts structure as well as 'hot' lighting strewn across it's underbelly. It has two symmetric triangular lit up areas either at it's front or back (more likely it's front.)

The point I alluded to above is that this particular ship appears in the movie exactly as it does in the book. Spielberg must have had significant input into how it looked and behaved in the film because it is the only ship other than the mothership to have a solid outward appearance.

The mothership is implicated in the visit to the Guiler houshold when Barry is abducted.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2014 - 4:19 PM   
 By:   Rnelson   (Member)

It is saucer H in both instances. How so? Because as mentioned, the distinctive rail-like structure underhanging the same edge of the saucer is seen when Neary peers out of his pickup's windshiled and we see exactly the same rail/probe structure again at the end at the landing strip barnstorming. It's making a deep humming noise and there's massive air disturbance as technicians struggle to stop recording equipment being magnetically sucked up to the ship as it hovers overhead (good job they're wearing sunglasses too! smile)

Now that it's been aired, there is an anomaly about the saucer H shot tagged onto the Special Edition release. That shadow hanging over Neary's truck as he races to the locations where the radio chatter is describing strange goings-on is actually oversize, IMO. There's a scaling issue there, I tend to think. It's not supposed to be that massive. It's basically circular with drooping antennae and probe-like structures hanging down all around it's circumference. Unfortunately, we never get to see it cleanly in the film but we do see it from the pov of the ground crew briefly and as Spielberg describes in his book, there's a strong impression of nuts n' bolts structure as well as 'hot' lighting strewn across it's underbelly. It has two symmetric triangular lit up areas either at it's front or back (more likely it's front.)

The point I alluded to above is that this particular ship appears in the movie exactly as it does in the book. Spielberg must have had significant input into how it looked and behaved in the film because it is the only ship other than the mothership to have a solid outward appearance.

The mothership is implicated in the visit to the Guiler houshold when Barry is abducted.


I had that Cinefantastique as well. I remember one UFO was made out of a model pickup truck. My favorites were always the tumbling cone shaped ones. Some had extensions resembling a pair of antennae and some didn't. I also like the one which was sort of a flying wing.

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2014 - 4:33 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Saucer H with the incident in the book of Lacombe trying to touch it not quite being enacted in the film



Saucer D



Pickup truck looking blocky with the red colored glow on left of picture

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2014 - 7:57 PM   
 By:   dogplant   (Member)

The mothership is implicated in the visit to the Guiler houshold when Barry is abducted.

Yes, I gathered that. I always got the feeling we glimpse the mothership's massive, monolith-like landing ramp gliding by, left to right, just as Barry swings open the door. It's so great, though, that we never see outside all that time, as Spielberg plays the scene from Gillian's point-of-view, making it so frightening. From memory, he compared it to "The Birds".

And I agree, in the Special Edition shot looking down on Roy's truck after his first encounter, if that's supposed to be the shadow of 'Saucer H' it feels too big. That's why it confused me.

I had a dream, when I was a kid obsessing about this film, that I visited the 'Big Set' in Mobile Alabama and there, in an an adjoining storage space, were all the UFOs from the barnstorming sequence, all full scale, the size of cars, stacked up on boxes, some covered with sheets, like they were about to go into storage. I'd love to see visual effects supervisor Bill George feature a few of those freaky machines on the runway at http://www.scifiairshow.com

Love this movie, though, including all of its anomalies, and feel it will be time for me to revisit my Blu-ray again soon.

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2014 - 11:25 PM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

The film will always look grainy because of the various optical effects. IMO it's a great transfer -- they didn't lather it up with DNR to give it a smooth appearance, what you are seeing over the DVD is added detail. Many feel this is one of the strongest catalog Blu-Ray transfers around...I'd much rather see it presented this way instead of being filtered-over so it looks like a modern-day CGI effects film.

I saw the film several times in 70mm when it first opened and it did NOT look grainy. One of the notable things about the film was the clear, pristine look of the images.

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2017 - 5:46 PM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

This is an older thread but I feel compelled to make some points here...

A: Vilmos Zsigmond shot Close Encounters using his usual method of flashing a negative to achieve high contrast between colors and darks. This also is known for producing a notably grainier image then what would normally be achieved since you're partially exposing the film while shooting it. Compare it to other Zsigmond shot films of the era like McCabe and Mrs. Miller and Heaven's Gate.

B: Theatrical prints are usually three generations off the oneg and will have much finer grain

C: Whether or not the 70mm prints are in bad shape is irrelevant as this film was not shot in 65mm (save for the raw 65mm effects footage which was reduced to 35mm for the final cut internegative).

D: You want to complain about something? Try the original 1997 restoration of Spielberg's director's cut. It was sourced from dupes created for the 1980 Special Edition and suffered from uneven darks, unstable visual effect shots, and a muddy blown out sound mix (which is saying something since the original mix wasn't very good to begin with).

This was one of the first great blu rays. Maybe 4k can improve on it somewhat (the grain is the grain and is burnt into the film), but I'm not holding my breath on it.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2017 - 9:46 AM   
 By:   vinylscrubber   (Member)

Just had occasion to watch this with my son and his new wife who was born in China. We picked this because it's one of the few Blu-rays with Mandarin subtitles which helps Lisi keep up with the film. I was struck again by how less than perfect this Blu-Ray looks, although as well explained in the posts above it's about as good as it's ever going to get.

The audio is nothing to write home about either, lacking the real bottom end kick that the 6 track 70mm presentation I saw many times back in '77 possessed. The very first time I saw the film was in an early six-plex in mono. It still worked it's magic but the 70mm 6 track presentation was an out-of-body experience after that. That opening chord out the blackness into the first shot knocked you back in your seat with a noticeable puff of wind from the subwoofer.

 
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