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 Posted:   Dec 23, 2014 - 2:49 AM   
 By:   Regie   (Member)

A simply wonderful score!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCqjq7oN2sg

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 23, 2014 - 4:20 AM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

No argument from this quarter, or any other probably. Odd though how the music just cuts out 2/3rds of the way through.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 23, 2014 - 6:32 AM   
 By:   bobbengan   (Member)

Mikols Rózsa's granddaughter is a dear friend of mine; We first met as Freshman in college some time back. When I heard the last name I took a shot in the dark, not knowing at all whether or not there'd be any relation. When it turned out there indeed was, I belted out, "HOLY SHIT! EL CID!"

A great friendship was born that day.

Incidentally, I also attended college with Christopher Young's daughter for a while, only to learn AFTER transferring who her father was. D'oh! But I digress...

Yup, this one is pretty much one of the great scores and themes ever. I am baffled though why the "Overture" is so frequently anthologized and rerecorded when it's clearly the "Prologue" that is the true masterpiece of this score!

 
 Posted:   Dec 23, 2014 - 8:50 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

I agree about the “Prelude,” it's a wonderful piece of music more representative of the score as a whole than the overture.

El Cid is my favorite of Rózsa's epic scores. I love the Tadlow recording (and this is a score that plays very well in complete form), but I also listen often to the more LP recording (the FSM remaster in the Rózsa box).

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 23, 2014 - 5:39 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

"HOLY SHIT! EL CID!"

I am baffled though why the "Overture" is so frequently anthologized and rerecorded when it's clearly the "Prologue" that is the true masterpiece of this score!


I'm not entirely sure those two exclamations blend seamlessly. However, they seem to have achieved the result you desired.

For the rest, I prefer the Overture, even though it isn't completely original thematically. The love theme for me veers a little too closely to "Granada".

 
 Posted:   Dec 23, 2014 - 6:44 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

The Overture was based on a famous mediaeval song from the Red Book of Montserrat, 'Los set Goyts' and the original can be heard very well performed here by an ensemble:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ClrTc5cRPUo


Rozsa was absolutely energised by historical re-evocations of ancient pieces. That's why he no doubt liked the Overture as a concert piece. He hoped someone would recognise a historic Spanish tune, and his fine treatment of it, He cared deeply about this, and planned lecture tours on his 'Quo Vadis?' and 'El Cid' scores.

The Prelude is very fine too, but entirely his own. The main theme for Rodrigo is a version of Launcelot's theme from 'Knights of the Round Table' reworked in a Spanish mode, as was demonstrated on another thread here, musically.

About eight original sources from the Cantigas of Santa Maria were used in the score. I recall someone here saying that 'Fight for Calahorra' was 'the setpiece of the score'. Wonderful it is, but it could never have made it to the suite, since about 60% of it is not his own tunery! We owe it to the ancestors to credit their work, and Rozsa always did, with glee. He loved bringing their material to life.

 
 Posted:   Dec 23, 2014 - 6:50 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

Never want to miss a chance to proclaim my love for this amazing score...one of my all-time favorites and one of the best of all time. As for the "Overture" versus "Prelude" thing, I think that's going to be a lot like the EL CID vs. BEN-HUR argument. You're always going to have dedicated Rozsa fans who are fierce advocates for one side or the other.
For the record, I prefer EL CID over BEN-HUR (a wonderful score though) and the "Overture" has always been my favorite bit from EL CID (or maybe "Fight for Callahora")

 
 Posted:   Dec 23, 2014 - 6:52 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZtF6Kaca6Y

 
 Posted:   Dec 23, 2014 - 6:59 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZtF6Kaca6Y

This is awesome! Thanks for posting that, William. A while back someone posted some links to the "Las Cantigas" that were similarly amazing (probably you too, right?)

 
 Posted:   Dec 23, 2014 - 7:03 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Thanks Ray ... I'll find the link to that other thread if I can,

By the way ... your profile pic ... I bought a hat that looks identical to that one recently. I put stampede strings on mine!

 
 Posted:   Dec 23, 2014 - 7:09 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

I bought a hat that looks identical to that one recently. I put stampede strings on mine!

Cool...I got mine at an authentic period Western wear store here in AZ. I like the extra wide brim.

 
 Posted:   Dec 23, 2014 - 8:14 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Some of those links to sources here:

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=83030&forumID=1&archive=0

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 24, 2014 - 8:33 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

Miklos Rózsa's granddaughter is a dear friend of mine; We first met as Freshman in college some time back. . . .Yup, this one is pretty much one of the great scores and themes ever. I am baffled though why the "Overture" is so frequently anthologized and rerecorded when it's clearly the "Prologue" that is the true masterpiece of this score!

Interesting comments here. Which granddaughter? There are three. One of them, Ariana [the youngest?], was recently married in Italy, with Rozsa expert Daniel Robbins directing the music. And now the mighty Miklos has a great-grandson.

I definitely relate to your feelings about Overture vs. Prelude. I used to feel the same way. After seeing the film, my first album exposure came via the oddball Mueller-Lampertz collection called "Music from Wide-Screen Spectaculars." Like many succeeding versions, that one highlighted the Overture (with castanets replacing the tambourine) rather than the Prelude. I too was puzzled by the omission of the Prelude, which after all contains the two principal subjects of the score, whereas the Overture's thematic material scarcely recurs at all in the body of the film. (Or in the diegesis, as Stephen Meyer's new book would have it.) I felt then (and still feel) that the Cid theme is one of Rozsa's noblest inventions. So too is the love music for Rodrigo and Chimene. Why then did Rozsa and other conductors so often bypass the Prelude?

Over the years I've come to understand. The Overture is simply a perfect free-standing musical composition. In three minutes it introduces two distinctive themes and then combines them masterfully in a build-up to a great contrapuntal climax, with each theme successively to the fore. Counterpoint was central to Rozsa's art, and I can see why he was especially proud of this particular expression, in which he built on medieval materials that nobody had ever before thought to develop in symphonic style. Yes, the Prelude is noble music and quite thrilling when heard with the credits and those sweeping (though hardly medieval!) charcoal sketches by Piotrowski. However, the two themes of the Prelude only reach their full potential later in the score. As introduced by full orchestra here, they constitute an introduction and not a free-standing concert piece.

 
 Posted:   Dec 25, 2014 - 4:55 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

A finer film score than EL CID has yet to be written, a favorite of mine as well. I enjoy the splendid Tadlow recording, but want to put in a favorable mention for the Sedares Koch recording as well.

 
 Posted:   Dec 26, 2014 - 2:51 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

A few years ago I was lucky enough to see a restored print of the film at Lincoln Center. When Rozsa's name appeared in the opening credits, the audience erupted in spontaneous applause.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 26, 2014 - 4:58 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

I'm going to have to check all this out. My big sistah took me to see this when I was a youngster and I'm afraid I got bored. Can only recall a scene in a cave with Sophia & Chuck flirting. smile

PS
1961-2? oy I was a kindergartner!eek

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 26, 2014 - 5:50 PM   
 By:   bobbengan   (Member)

1961-2? oy I was a kindergartner!eek

I wouldn't be born for well over 30 years!!!

 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2014 - 8:08 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

A few years ago I was lucky enough to see a restored print of the film at Lincoln Center. When Rozsa's name appeared in the opening credits, the audience erupted in spontaneous applause.

I remember.

That was right when the Tadlow recording first came out, too. Perfect timing.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2014 - 7:46 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

I'm going to have to check all this out. My big sistah took me to see this when I was a youngster and I'm afraid I got bored. Can only recall a scene in a cave with Sophia & Chuck flirting. smile


Really? You were a youngster and all you can remember is Sophia and Chuck flirting (in a barn actually, not a cave)? Not any of the battle scenes? You must have been a very precocious child. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2014 - 7:55 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

LOL a barn was it!

 
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