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 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 9:04 AM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

MV, you mentioned on another thread about considering releasing golden age scores with a $30 price tag in the future. First of all,I don't think all golden age CD's should be released at that price by your label or any label.
However, under certain circumstances, the difficulty in obtaining the material and the restoration work involved,I believe many of us golden age fans would be most willing to pay this premium.
At the present time MV,do you have access to music elements of MGM movies produced in the 30's and 40's ? Lukas Kendall and FSM scratched the surface of that era at MGM. Can you go deeper ?
I am talking about scores like THE GOOD EARTH,CAPTAINS COURAGEOUS,DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE,THE HUMAN COMEDY, THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY,etc.
The same goes for golden age scores at Warner Brothers. Max Steiner among others at WB were very prolific in writing music for films. Even later releases like THE HANGING TREE and SPENCER'S MOUNTAIN would be most welcomed at a $30 price tag. Can you go there, MV ? I am sure many of us would be very interested about any comments you would make regarding this thread. Thanks in advance.

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 11:28 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

It's not your opinion of how a title should be priced, or even MV's. There's far more cost involved than you realize and a label has to recoup their costs as well as be prepared to site on money while various titles take time to sell and have cash flow to fund future releases -- many of which can take some time to come out and in rare cases years to finally be available for purchase; that's a lot of money just out there that they and any other label can't get back until the items start selling. If anything, we should probably consider ourslves lucky it's only $30 a golden age title.

Some passed comments from MV and Intrada on costs:

The following are just some of the costs to us that have increased. I am not referring to the musician fees because thankfully the historic rates have made these albums actually possible now. And I am not counting postage fees as those we factor into our retail shipping rates. Anyway, onwards.

Here's what costs have increased since our first $19.99 CD went out our door: The advances to acquire the license. The royalty rates to the studio. The mechanical licensing fees. (Yes, every time we add another track to an album, not only do we pay a higher rate, but we pay that rate so many more times over, too.) The costs of transferring the original elements. The costs of mixing, editing and mastering the music. The costs of licensing the artwork and stills for the packaging. The costs of manufacturing a disc. The costs of printing a booklet. And - of course - the labor costs at all levels of production and manufacturing and filling of orders and all that overhead stuff. And my point here?

Some 25 years later, we still retail these discs for $19.99

Just something to ponder. Don't fear a price increase or some other yucky development at this time. But maybe, just maybe, be kind of happy that you are seeing these albums come out against such challenging odds. It gets pretty crazy sometimes.
--Doug


Economics 101:

Project costs $10,000 to produce. You sell cd at an average of $7 per unit. For a release like this, one that is months after the fact, you might be lucky to move 1000 to 2000 units. If you move 2000, you make $14,000 gross. Of course, when you factor in royalties you might walk away with $2,500 - $3,000 profit. Now, this is not accounting for the 1000 cds you will most likely receive as returns a year later from vendors like Tower, Virgin, etc. . . So, you have actually lost money on the project.

Perhaps some day another company will release it as a limited edition cd if Mr Despalt's star continues to rise. Hell, in a few years I might even do that! I'm a fan of his work, but to release the cd now is hardly worth it to appease a few hundred people.

Now, if I can get a slew of you to want a release of this, I might second think the project. This is similiar to Blade:Trinity. We were considering doing it, but there wasn't enough interest, so we passed.


MV


I can't speak for others, but when you get right down to it $20 is just about as low as we can go.

Between artist royalties, mechanical royalties, afm fees, sag fees (for choir), transfer costs, mastering costs, producing costs as well as manufacturing costs a company's out of pocket fees go well into the 10's of thousands on some projects. Other projects, are not as high, but those ones usually are not as much in demand.

We try to give customers a break from time to time (sale prices on older titles or sale prices on new ones -- like now: Buy Dragonslayer and get Eraser for $14.98).

Plus, something to also keep in mind is when we sell these cds to other stores we sell them at a wholesale rate, so our profit diminishes anywhere from $5 to $10. Only Varese has the cajones to sell their wares at full retail price to the wholesale marketplace. LOL

Believe me, if we could sell these cds cheaper and still make a good profit we would.

And that's all I gotta say about that.

MV

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 11:39 AM   
 By:   Lokutus   (Member)

Time to start a few Kickstarter campaigns.

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 11:45 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Eh, we probably just need to buy more often rather than put something off (if the cash is available) and not wait until they discount stuff at prices that likes punches MV's wallet it was up against Tyson (watch those ears!); and if anybody is feeling generous, send a tad bit more on each CD (maybe somewhere in a dollar, for a suggestion).

so they recoup costs faster and profit more.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 12:28 PM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

Glad to have your feedback, but I am still hoping for MV to make some comments on the questions I have originally asked on this thread. I am not talking about new recordings or kickstarters of old scores. I am talking about old scores whose music elements might still exist.

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 12:52 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Yes, but I didn't answer any of your questions. I commented on your opening sentences which were comments; there's no question (or question mark for that matter) in those. The questions came afterward.


By the way, you'll catch more MV's with honey than vinegar.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 4:51 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

MV, you mentioned on another thread about considering releasing golden age scores with a $30 price tag in the future. First of all,I don't think all golden age CD's should be released at that price by your label or any label.
However, under certain circumstances, the difficulty in obtaining the material and the restoration work involved,I believe many of us golden age fans would be most willing to pay this premium.
At the present time MV,do you have access to music elements of MGM movies produced in the 30's and 40's ? Lukas Kendall and FSM scratched the surface of that era at MGM. Can you go deeper ?
I am talking about scores like THE GOOD EARTH,CAPTAINS COURAGEOUS,DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE,THE HUMAN COMEDY, THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY,etc.
The same goes for golden age scores at Warner Brothers. Max Steiner among others at WB were very prolific in writing music for films. Even later releases like THE HANGING TREE and SPENCER'S MOUNTAIN would be most welcomed at a $30 price tag. Can you go there, MV ? I am sure many of us would be very interested about any comments you would make regarding this thread. Thanks in advance.




You stated it perfectly Cody. I quite agree with your comments. Some Golden Age scores might require extra work and costs, the sales moderate, so a $30 price might be reasonable in certain cases. That's better than not having the score issued at all! I'd sure pay $30 for The Hanging Tree, Spencer's Mountain, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, among others, if the tracks still exist.

I hope we hear from MV and the other labels and fans too.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 5:43 PM   
 By:   .   (Member)

Almost $40 for a standard single CD is preposterous, which is what a $30 single CD would cost if local tax is applicable plus shipping.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 6:42 PM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

Almost $40 for a standard single CD is preposterous, which is what a $30 single CD would cost if local tax is applicable plus shipping.
Well, I guess then even if it is something you want, you just won't buy it. You are very disciplined.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 7:50 PM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

MV, you mentioned on another thread about considering releasing golden age scores with a $30 price tag in the future. First of all,I don't think all golden age CD's should be released at that price by your label or any label.
However, under certain circumstances, the difficulty in obtaining the material and the restoration work involved,I believe many of us golden age fans would be most willing to pay this premium.
At the present time MV,do you have access to music elements of MGM movies produced in the 30's and 40's ? Lukas Kendall and FSM scratched the surface of that era at MGM. Can you go deeper ?
I am talking about scores like THE GOOD EARTH,CAPTAINS COURAGEOUS,DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE,THE HUMAN COMEDY, THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY,etc.
The same goes for golden age scores at Warner Brothers. Max Steiner among others at WB were very prolific in writing music for films. Even later releases like THE HANGING TREE and SPENCER'S MOUNTAIN would be most welcomed at a $30 price tag. Can you go there, MV ? I am sure many of us would be very interested about any comments you would make regarding this thread. Thanks in advance.




You stated it perfectly Cody. I quite agree with your comments. Some Golden Age scores might require extra work and costs, the sales moderate, so a $30 price might be reasonable in certain cases. That's better than not having the score issued at all! I'd sure pay $30 for The Hanging Tree, Spencer's Mountain, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, among others, if the tracks still exist.

I hope we hear from MV and the other labels and fans too.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 7:51 PM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

MV, you mentioned on another thread about considering releasing golden age scores with a $30 price tag in the future. First of all,I don't think all golden age CD's should be released at that price by your label or any label.
However, under certain circumstances, the difficulty in obtaining the material and the restoration work involved,I believe many of us golden age fans would be most willing to pay this premium.
At the present time MV,do you have access to music elements of MGM movies produced in the 30's and 40's ? Lukas Kendall and FSM scratched the surface of that era at MGM. Can you go deeper ?
I am talking about scores like THE GOOD EARTH,CAPTAINS COURAGEOUS,DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE,THE HUMAN COMEDY, THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY,etc.
The same goes for golden age scores at Warner Brothers. Max Steiner among others at WB were very prolific in writing music for films. Even later releases like THE HANGING TREE and SPENCER'S MOUNTAIN would be most welcomed at a $30 price tag. Can you go there, MV ? I am sure many of us would be very interested about any comments you would make regarding this thread. Thanks in advance.




You stated it perfectly Cody. I quite agree with your comments. Some Golden Age scores might require extra work and costs, the sales moderate, so a $30 price might be reasonable in certain cases. That's better than not having the score issued at all! I'd sure pay $30 for The Hanging Tree, Spencer's Mountain, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, among others, if the tracks still exist.

I hope we hear from MV and the other labels and fans too.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 7:55 PM   
 By:   jwb   (Member)

If I have to pay over $20 for any single disc release I'll quit collecting. As it stands, even the $30 2disc releases we are seeing are pushing it. What kinda bugs me is that most 2 disc sets are $25, but if its a Williams title its $30. Apparently Williams releases cost more? Or they know they make more money off them so charge the extra.

Shipping is not helping with these costs either, but not much the labels can do about that.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 7:56 PM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

MV, you mentioned on another thread about considering releasing golden age scores with a $30 price tag in the future. First of all,I don't think all golden age CD's should be released at that price by your label or any label.
However, under certain circumstances, the difficulty in obtaining the material and the restoration work involved,I believe many of us golden age fans would be most willing to pay this premium.
At the present time MV,do you have access to music elements of MGM movies produced in the 30's and 40's ? Lukas Kendall and FSM scratched the surface of that era at MGM. Can you go deeper ?
I am talking about scores like THE GOOD EARTH,CAPTAINS COURAGEOUS,DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE,THE HUMAN COMEDY, THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY,etc.
The same goes for golden age scores at Warner Brothers. Max Steiner among others at WB were very prolific in writing music for films. Even later releases like THE HANGING TREE and SPENCER'S MOUNTAIN would be most welcomed at a $30 price tag. Can you go there, MV ? I am sure many of us would be very interested about any comments you would make regarding this thread. Thanks in advance.




You stated it perfectly Cody. I quite agree with your comments. Some Golden Age scores might require extra work and costs, the sales moderate, so a $30 price might be reasonable in certain cases. That's better than not having the score issued at all! I'd sure pay $30 for The Hanging Tree, Spencer's Mountain, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, among others, if the tracks still exist.

I hope we hear from MV and the other labels and fans too.



Thanks for your support, PFK. I wish more golden age fans would join in. And of course, I would like to hear from MV. That's the title of this new thread.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 8:05 PM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

If I have to pay over $20 for any single disc release I'll quit collecting. As it stands, even the $30 2disc releases we are seeing are pushing it.

Shipping is not helping with these costs either of course.


Is it really that easy to quit collecting ? Surely, there must be certain titles you are just praying for a CD release. There is a well known member on this board who would love to have SINBAD THE SAILOR. I have no doubt that if the elements were found,he would gladly pay the additional dollars.

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 9:07 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Almost $40 for a standard single CD is preposterous, which is what a $30 single CD would cost if local tax is applicable plus shipping.

I don't know. The first FSM CD ("Stagecoach"/"The Loner") cost $20 in 1998, plus shipping. In 2015 dollars, that's about $29, plus shipping. I don't know why we have this expectation that CDs should cost $20 forever, while the price of everything else escalates.

That said, I'm not sure releasing obscure scores at premium prices will ever be a good business model. I would guess that discouraging impulse buys would counteract whatever extra they got per CD. But that's just a hunch. Tough business, the soundtrack business!

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 9:52 PM   
 By:   rjc   (Member)

Thanks for your support, PFK. I wish more golden age fans would join in. And of course, I would like to hear from MV. That's the title of this new thread.

I'd be OK with it, Cody. It's certainly an idea worth discussing. I've been collecting soundtracks for over 20 years, and it's never been cheap, always a balancing act. Of course, I buy what interests me, but also what is within my means. I don't see a $30 CD of a Golden Age title altering my spending habits considerably, as I'd simply adapt to what works within my budget, especially for the DOCTOR JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE suggestion by PFK! smile

In the last few years, I've been paying more attention to Golden Age titles, especially by composers who are not named Hermann, Rózsa and Waxman, all familiar long time favorites. And I've been buying a lot of them. The obvious reason is the music is great, and to be bound to only what is now seems shortsighted to me. I also think it's a bit of a time thing: interest in the Golden Age is, sadly, simply not as pronounced as that for more recent releases. Sometimes there's a feeling of, "This might be it," when the latest Golden Age CD comes out. I was listening to Tribute's SHE recently, a magnificent recording from a 1935 movie; I also have the OST from BYU. And it made me think, how rare and special is it that anything from that time is so well represented. And a little sad, as there's a lot of great music from then that likely will not survive in any format.

I absolutely love all of what I've heard by Roy Webb, yet of the 300 plus movies he scored, not much is available. In my dreams, if a $30 CD of THE SPIRAL STAIRCASE came out, I'd be there.

Which reminds me: I need to order KANGAROO.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 10:53 PM   
 By:   Eugene Iemola   (Member)

Regarding the cost to the consumer, all I have to say is I'm already paying upwards of 30 dollars easily, when I get the new soundtracks on vinyl.

But then again you have to be crazy to admit something like that.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 11:03 PM   
 By:   .   (Member)

I doubt if offering to pay $30 instead of $20 for an official original soundtrack CD by the great Frank Skinner would result in any of our esteemed labels giving us one for the first time in the entire history of the CD medium. How about an extra $40? $50?


 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2015 - 11:17 PM   
 By:   Essankay   (Member)

The only film music CDs I'd pay $30 for would be re-recordings of scores that I particularly desire. When single-disc archival releases reach 30 clams I'll just enjoy the many, many great albums I already own!


If I have to pay over $20 for any single disc release I'll quit collecting.

Is it really that easy to quit collecting ?



Thank God I'm not a "collector". I buy soundtrack albums for the music, not just to own them like those notorious bottlecaps.

 
 Posted:   Feb 28, 2015 - 12:35 AM   
 By:   rjc   (Member)

I doubt if offering to pay $30 instead of $20 for an official original soundtrack CD by the great Frank Skinner would result in any of our esteemed labels giving us one for the first time in the entire history of the CD medium. How about an extra $40? $50?

I kind of doubt it, too, but I'd gladly be proven wrong if it did happen.

I'm wondering if MV had any particular titles in mind when he initially put forth the idea? I believe A CERTAIN SMILE underperformed, and is still listed at $9.95. Might that have benefited from such an arrangement? Although ascertaining what would be potentially viable or not is a guessing game. I'll buy "that," but will you or you?

 
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