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 Posted:   Mar 24, 2015 - 8:58 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Great article!

http://www.space.com/28912-mistakes-people-make-when-arguing-science.html

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2015 - 9:47 AM   
 By:   betenoir   (Member)

Great article!

http://www.space.com/28912-mistakes-people-make-when-arguing-science.html


Yes it is (and I speak as a scientist). Even a few scientists I know are guilty of some of these, particularly confirmation bias.

 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2015 - 10:20 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

It doesn't explain how flashes of insight that actually explains the trigger for an experience can actually correlate very closely to what one can expect to observe with experimentation - without having actually done the experimenting. Statistically accrued judgement would throw every statically developed idea out the window if peer review were strictly adhered to.

Take Newton and calculus. As sometimes happens in science, two coincidental discoveries can occur almost at the same time. The brits and the continentals spent years arguing over who got there first - Newton or Leibnitz? Then there is Einstein and relativity. If he had not got there, then when could the theory have been realised within a realistic timeframe post Einstein? The best example by far is Gregor Mendel. He actually used correctly deduced statistical evidence to advance his ideas about genetic inheritence and do you know what happened. Nothing. No-one listened to his revelation until after he was history. His paper was discovered by an interested party some time after it had been written, when the hard work expended for it had become dust - just like Van Gogh.

The point is, of course, the brilliance of correctly postulated insight. Take, for example, mathematical proof. The methods of this type of proof are supposedly rigorous. How does anyone know that a proof that has been written down is actually correct? What is it about the formal pursuit of a proof that is leading it's investigator in the right direction, especially when no-one has been there before? For this I cite Andrew Wiles and his 7 year quest to solve Fermat's Last Theorem. Now here's a thought. Fermat said he had a solution but he neglected to write down what it was. Can it be correctly deduced by a majority that he did not, in fact, have a solution worth whatever medium it was printed on? Something beyond the realm of normal experience is what takes us over the horizon. Let's also not forget that this type of apparently irrational thinking bears some statistical relevance.

 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2015 - 11:27 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

It doesn't explain how flashes of insight that actually explains the trigger for an experience can actually correlate very closely to what one can expect to observe with experimentation - without having actually done the experimenting. Statistically accrued judgement would throw every statically developed idea out the window if peer review were strictly adhered to.


Are you speaking of Hypothesis? There's certainly a place in science for creativity, even dreaming. Man has the ability to "imagine" which leads them into experimentation, discoveries and conclusions.

Hate to bring yet another thread around to Star Trek, but, Spock finally got it in ST TMP! You need imagination to visualize and learn, but you also need logic to separate the facts from what one wants to believe.

 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2015 - 12:20 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Every now and then, there are scientists who see a clear line of sight to the heart, or truth of the matter using nothing other than imagination. They would say to you, "surely can see what is obvious?" It might be something in their training using abstract thought which gives them an extra pair of eyes, or, eyes that can see in the dark.

The way good science is done is usually through a haze where specific glimpses or shapes of things become momentarily apparent. A case in point was the bridge between the Cavendish laboratory in Cambridge and Kings College in London via the personages of Crick and Watson, not to be confused with Holmes and Watson. It's a well trod story with the added value of having actually been true. Rosalind Franklin and Maurice Wilkins were the ones with the hardware required to do the testing necessary to get the samples. Crick and Watson were the upstarts who piggy-backed on that experimental data set, which was privileged first hand evidence available to the participants at Kings College, who chose not to let their imaginations get away from them. The Cambridge duo did things a little differently. They dared to make very carefully weighed assumptions regarding the data they were getting from across that bridge - almost guessing at the big picture with a smattering of jigsaw pieces - and happened to figure out the structure of DNA as a result of seeing things clearly. As to whether or not you consider what they did being akin to detective work is entirely up to you.

People only argue over something when the coherance of certainty is lacking.

 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2015 - 1:04 PM   
 By:   mastadge   (Member)

Grecchus, I agree with you, but I think there's more to it, too. There's no doubt that Crick was an amazing genius. But also, up until then, science was still (almost) small enough that you could be largely on top of it. Science, like so many other fields, has ballooned so quickly over the past few decades, has gotten so specialized and subdivided, that you no longer have as many situations like you did in Cambridge then where the molecular biologist and the p-chemist happened to have a chat during tea with the crystallographer, and they were all able to understand each other and, boom, history was made. No longer can you openly discuss your findings before they're published. No longer is there a tea-time and a department small enough that great minds can come together over tea. Interdisciplinary genius is maybe no longer so spontaneous as it was once possible for it to be.

 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2015 - 1:16 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

I see your point, Mastage. But you also have to remember that sir Lawrence Bragg never ever imagined he would see the structure of DNA, which somehow constituted the unimaginably complex entity known then and now as the "gene," elucidated within his lifetime.

 
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