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Posted: |
Apr 24, 2015 - 6:41 PM
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By: |
Howard L
(Member)
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All right, why not a response from the Jerryatric set to get things rolling. It started as a youngster before appreciation for the composer set in right here at the 2:50 to 3:22 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viEZojWGVxY and then when I was 12 it was Planet Of The Apes. By that time I was able to make the connection that the name in the composing credit was the same guy who did those T-Zone episodes. Now we move into the 70s starting with Patton, and into circa senior year HS with Papillon. I remember going on a quadruple date that Friday night--her name was Kim! Then soon came Magic, Star Trek: TMP and before you know it it's the 80s with Poltergeist and Hoosiers. Come the 90s and (gulp) my 40s it was that wistful score to Matinee.
But I'm not sure where you're going with this, either, so for the record Hoosiers is probably the one I have the most hankering for, usually while driving. And Matinee. But I do listen to his TZ stuff still although Herrmann's is tops in that category, overall. There's a compilation tape hidden somewhere and the Ilia theme does me in every time no matter how many times. Another source of continuing comfort is a nice YouTube video of the ST: Voyager opening. You haven't heard it until you've heard it done live in a concert hall with a symphony orchestra and the composer conducting. Which will be 15 years ago in June.
Point being that listening is a timeless pleasure whether they're dead or alive and the music is canned or live. The appreciation for the makers only grows, too. We didn't or don't really know the makers but we know their music. That's all we really need to know, I think.
Kev, m'lad, hope we haven't taken too much of your time nor gone too far down the road less traveled.
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Posted: |
Apr 24, 2015 - 10:35 PM
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By: |
The Thing
(Member)
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James Horner: Listened to Wolf Totem for the first time last night, and could hear a few reminders of his earlier Star Trek music. Not sure that's a good thing with the criticism he gets on here, but it suggests his style is still similar to his older stuff (although there's a few of those synth scores from the 80s that I don't like, such as 48 Hrs, Red Heat, Gorky Park, Commando)
Ennio Morricone: Whist he mellowed over his career, I like his traditional modern scores just as much as his earlier quirky oddball music. Completely contrasting styles, but most of it I find very interesting and appealing.
John Barry: Usually pretty dependable to provide that Barry Sound which I love.
To a lesser extent, I could add John Ottman and Brian Tyler who I feel I can usually depend on to produce something I like (i.e. they haven't yet gone off to become too experimental and different from their standard style).
Plenty of other composers I like, but don't find their entire catalogue as consistent. For example, most of Christopher Young's non-genre scores don't interest me. A lot of Hans Zimmer's recent stuff (Sherlock Holmes, Lone Ranger, Rango, Kung Fu Panda), whilst they fit the context of the films, don't appeal to me on CD. Similarly, Danny Elfman has too many diverse styles for me to like everything, but still releases some excellent stuff to justify liking his work over a decent time period.
Some other composers I probably don't have enough of their output (lack of availability on CD, or they haven't done as much) to judge them over time (e.g. Velazquez, Kaczmarek, Navarrete, Wiedmann), but maybe could be included in future.
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Posted: |
Apr 25, 2015 - 5:53 AM
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By: |
Ny
(Member)
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Horner was the first love for me, thanks mostly to Aliens in 86, and i still love and collect his eighties stuff, electronic and symphonic, however Sneakers is the latest release of his that i own, which is 92 i think?
it's partly down to the assignments he got landed with beyond that point, Titanic and Legends of the Fall and that kind of thing are too sentimental for me, both movies and scores, also Goldenthal surpassed him as my fav circa Alien 3.
it's also partly down to me becoming more interested in older scores, and looking back to discover and explore Rosenman and Fielding and the like, but basically i barely notice Horner's work these days, i don't wish he did less generic movies now or anything like that, and i believe he does a good job when i do come across his music, but we both moved on shall we say.
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Posted: |
Apr 25, 2015 - 5:55 AM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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I THINK I know where you're coming from, Kev. In my case, as a seriously grumpy old Luddite (frustrated at my lack of understanding of technology and taking the easy way out by blaming technology for everything that's wrong with the world), I have pretty much lost that "adolescent tingle of pleasure" (hey, steady on there) when it comes to listening to scores in general. To put things in perspective, every new LP I bought in the olden days would create its own expectations, and more often than not offer "something" which I used to perceive as special. So I'd be thrilled by any John Cacavas, Charles Fox, Bill Conti etc etc etc score that managed to make it onto LP - even if in retrospect the scores themselves may have been, in many cases... hmmm... perhaps "routine" is the right word.
Goldsmith was my favourite composer back then (probably still is), and EVERYTHING I picked up by him was simply brilliant. That was my perception of it. Looking back (and I'm talking about the purchases I made roughly 1974 to 1979), a lot of it WAS (and still IS) great, but I've certainly learned to re-evaluate scores, and it's not a cheery experience. It makes me feel "wise and unhappy" (that was HP Lovecraft's combination of adjectives for explaining the loss of childhood wonder).
So I still get a great deal of enjoyment out of my collection, but I also feel that quite a large percentage of it is merely serviceable music, even mediocre in the great scheme of things. To end on a positive note, the great stuff is as great as ever, but it's probably about 5% of what I've got.
Is that what you were on about? Sorry - the rabbit escaped again.
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Posted: |
Apr 25, 2015 - 9:26 AM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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Why Graham old bloke, are you admitting to becoming jaded in your not-so-young-but-not-so-old film music pre-crotchetyhood?
Yes Howard - and no!
BECAUSE, you see, whilst pondering weak and weary over this topic this very morn, what seemed bleak now seems brighter - and that's only three hours later! I am chirpier now, and in fact realised that I only recently posted on the "fun" music thread, agreeing that yes - scores can be fun, and we tend to overlook them due to their levity. I also realised that I posted something on the GOLDEN NEEDLES thread, that I'm glad I could still get great pleasure out of stuff of that ilk, while at the same time recognising that it was never meant to be considered "probably the most groundbreaking and overtly serious classical-leaning tone poem of the last century".
So I think that perhaps the problem I had this morning was that I was for some reason "judging" (misjudging) scores as if they all had to be on the same level of brilliance - which is absurd, of course.
AND YET it is true that my spine no longer tingles to ALL soundtracks the way it did back in 1976, when just the idea of "having an LP of a film" was about enough to get me all goose-bumply.
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Posted: |
Apr 25, 2015 - 11:08 AM
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By: |
Hurdy Gurdy
(Member)
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What Graham and Nyborg say is close to what I was chipping away at last night.
The love is still there for me, but it's a different kind of love. It maybe is a 'it's me, not you' thing also.
I remember finding the LP of Towering Inferno in a record shop in Liverpool. Beyond giddy was how I felt. I already loved JW from my discovery of him with Jaws/Star Wars/CE3K/Superman etc. I was about 16 or 17. Reading the LP cover over and over on the bus home...imagining what it would sound like (this was pre-video when films played at the cinema time and again, were shown on telly much, much later and I hadn't seen the film at the time).
I must have played it about 5-6 times that night, lying on my bed, reading the LP cover and looking at the pictures. Just a thrilling feeling.
Now I still love JW, always have, always will. I remember being excited hearing his new score in the trailers for War Horse and Lincoln. It gave me a similar giddy feeling. I think John Williams has managed to retain my love the most over the years.
Goldsmith and Horner are the next two, although like Graham and Nyborg, my memories of their earlier (or then current) scores are much happier than the latter Goldsmith and Horner scores.
It's undeniable that Horner and Goldsmith developed a more streamlined style as the years moved on.
But maybe my collecting memories had changed too. The discovery element had gone. These days everything can be previewed with the click of a mouse. There's less a sense of adventure.
I have been marvelling over the music of Jerry Fielding and John Scott (and Stu Phillips and Patrick Williams to a lesser extent) these past years while I have grown disinterested in a lot of modern day scores.
There are many other composers I follow (Danny Elfman, David Newman, Lee Holdridge, Elmer Bernstein, Pino Donaggio, JNH, Patrick Doyle, Frederic Talgorn, Michael Kamen) and my interest varies from one to the other.
I think ones love of anything changes down the years.
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Posted: |
Apr 25, 2015 - 1:51 PM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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Kev - and everyone - in case this develops into another "they don't write them like that anymore" thread for fuddy-duddies, it might be interesting to hear how (old) people's perceptions of their early purchases have changed, if at all.
You mention THE TOWERING INFERNO. I got that LP too probably around the same time you did (I remember it was a few years after the film's release, and it turned up in HMV in Glasgow in a sale - really cheap - along with stuff like AIRPORT '75). The anticipation of hearing these things was just... well, you explained it yourself, Kev. And, the funny thing is, in most cases the listening experience lived up to the magic which we had created in our heads. That bit's true for me - don't know about others...
So why did that happen? Was it like when "we" were (sorry, I'm going to make this First Person Singular) - I mean "I was" - twelve years old and watching Hammer horror films for the first time on the telly? They were ALL great back then, even the rubbish ones! Was there something like that going on in our minds with early soundtrack purchases? It's a bit of a stretch to think that we were that way at the age of sixteen (when every other Scot worthy of his haggis had lost his virginity). But I think I WAS like that.
In the case of THE TOWERING INFERNO, do you (plural) still get the same rush of excitement when you listen to it now? What about those other "great" ones we got back then, like AIRPORT '75, CORNBREAD EARL AND ME, BLACULA... ?
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Posted: |
Apr 26, 2015 - 5:42 AM
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By: |
Hurdy Gurdy
(Member)
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I was surprised to read, Graham, that you have somehow devalued the TV/Film music you grew up listening to and loving (if that is what you meant?).
My 49 year old self is certainly more jaded and cynical compared to the teenager/20something who was eating all this stuff up in the 70's and 80's, but I still love the music just as much.
Jonathan Kent's Death and Leaving Home from Superman, Main Title from Conrack, End Title from Jaws, Among the Clouds from Always...stuff like that will remain the greatest music I heard in my whole life until my last breath.
Listening to film music has been my first and foremost since I was about 13.
I still love all the other music I've been into...T-Rex, Queen, ELO, U2, REM, Eels...and the classical stuff some scores led me to (Prokofiev, Copland), but Film Music scratched my itch the best.
I don't love Munich, Memoirs of a Geisha, 7 Years in Tibet, Lost World, Tintin as much. I think that's just down to his musical style change or the films themselves not resonating with me? Maybe in the same way later Goldsmith and Horner sound somehow...less?...than their earlier efforts.
But new stuff still creeps through and can reduce me to mush. Certain tracks from Giacchino's LOST, his sacrifice music from Star Trek (Labour of Love), Velazquez's Orphanage and Impossible..even the tender stuff from David Newman's recent Tarzan score...I hear them and I'm that 15 year old boy again, crying on the inside with the joy of music.
I would also be interested to hear from people who discovered Elmer Bernstein, Bernard Herrmann, Victor Young, Alex North etc from the get-go and how their listening trajectory shaped up.
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Posted: |
Apr 26, 2015 - 6:05 AM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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I was surprised to read, Graham, that you have somehow devalued the TV/Film music you grew up listening to and loving (if that is what you meant?).
My 49 year old self is certainly more jaded and cynical compared to the teenager/20something who was eating all this stuff up in the 70's and 80's, but I still love the music just as much.
Jonathan Kent's Death and Leaving Home from Superman, Main Title from Conrack, End Title from Jaws, Among the Clouds from Always...stuff like that will remain the greatest music I heard in my whole life until my last breath.
I wouldn't say that I have "devalued" the music I grew up with, but it may have come across that way. I think what I've done is simply started seeing it in perspective. By the way, Kev, you've listed a few truly great things there (SUPERMAN, CONRACK, JAWS)... I could add dozens more which were great back then and still are. Quality stuff, no denying it. They've stood the test of time.
I was just curious about all the other scores we old people used to pick up on LP... I randomly mentioned BLACULA, CORNBREAD EARL AND ME and AIRPORT 75, but I could also mention (very off the top of my head) JEREMY, ONE ON ONE, PAPILLON... Now, you see, the funny thing is that there's one score amongst those which I randomly mentioned which is probably considered a true classic - and yet back in the days of my feverish youth I loved them all equally. Was that hormones or something?
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Posted: |
Apr 26, 2015 - 6:11 AM
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By: |
Ny
(Member)
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for me, the stuff that got my blood pumping as a kid - horner's clanging percussion, kettle drums, sliding bass, balalaika riffs etc, still has the same effect on me today, and where i haven't been able to upgrade to a C&C i still listen to the original vinyls i bought then.
there are a few that i don't listen to anymore, but at the time i bought everything of his i came across because it was that sparse of a market where i lived, the chances of the same record turning up again were slim to none, but sure at the time i gave them all a lot of attention, i was less fussy then in one sense, whereas in another - i usually went without lunch on those saturday trips, and only paid for a cinema ticket after i'd trawled through every rack in town.
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Posted: |
Apr 26, 2015 - 8:38 AM
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By: |
Howard L
(Member)
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I wouldn't say that I have "devalued" the music I grew up with, but it may have come across that way. I think what I've done is simply started seeing it in perspective....Now, you see, the funny thing is that there's one score amongst those which I randomly mentioned which is probably considered a true classic - and yet back in the days of my feverish youth I loved them all equally. Was that hormones or something?
You have solved the equation. Frames of reference expand as we grow older. It all starts when youthful ears perk up, they get perkier, your brain kicks in to a greater degree and in time film music awareness is established. What starts off as sensual expands into cerebral which either enhances or diminishes first impact. I think it usually enhances. Diminishment happens later. But there is much satisfaction in between. And it just might lessen the lessening later.
I would also be interested to hear from people who discovered Elmer Bernstein, Bernard Herrmann, Victor Young, Alex North etc from the get-go and how their listening trajectory shaped up.
Yes. As a youngster my ears reacted strongly to their music, mostly from watching TV. As I got older appreciation for the music makers grew. But the music was the thing and a composer like John Williams branches off of great TV themes into CE3K, along comes Richard Rodney Bennett, Randy Newman, Horner, et al. and more later it's JN Howard, Desplat, et al. But awareness of appreciation for an Alex North, for example, and beyond the great Spartacus love theme came late. But it came.
In between there was a ton of purchases. For me, Y2K has brought on a steady decline of purchases to new scores that paralleled less attendance at the cinema. Yet purchases have spiked suddenly, owing to classic scores becoming available. The excitement to hear them and celebrate has been rekindled.
So no, I can't relate to ho-humming it as senior citizenship beckons. But I speak as one who usually goes for the soundtrack after viewing the film. Maybe it makes a big difference and has resulted in a wider pool to draw from, I don't know. But it's never boring!
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This thread is dense (in a good way) with ideas and perspectives, many of which I agree with, even when they seem to contradict each other.
So I have to think about this a bit more. But I'll note one thing - I find myself from time to time falling out of and then back into love with movie music. I had paid no attention to Goldsmith's Omen scores for years (and Omen was my first Goldsmith, I knew the original by heart). But recently I listened to them again and loved them just as much as ever I had.
Same with John Barry - who I had tired of after listening for so many years. But recently I've been digging his Bond scores from across the quarter century he composed them.
So it's not for me a question just of getting jaded or tired or not finding the spark. Sometimes it's a need for distance and then falling back in love.
But one thing Graham said stays with me - that I used to be a lot more unconditional in my love for scores than I am now. A new score justified itself back in the day (starting in the 70's for me). For me, that hasn't been true for decades.
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Posted: |
Apr 26, 2015 - 10:58 AM
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By: |
Tall Guy
(Member)
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I was just curious about all the other scores we old people used to pick up on LP... I randomly mentioned BLACULA, CORNBREAD EARL AND ME and AIRPORT 75, but I could also mention (very off the top of my head) JEREMY, ONE ON ONE, PAPILLON... Now, you see, the funny thing is that there's one score amongst those which I randomly mentioned which is probably considered a true classic - and yet back in the days of my feverish youth I loved them all equally. Was that hormones or something?
Although I had a bias towards John Barry and shortly thereafter Morricone, I went through a period where I'd buy any and every LP that I could find and which had the slightest little sliver of interest for me. Almost all were blind buys, and it included golden age, silver age, orchestral, electronic, song scores (yes, really, but then again not too many), compilations, anything. Titles that I can still remember buying after all these years include:
The Bonds, Sleuth, MacArthur, The Reivers, Towering Inferno, Earthquake, Paper Tiger, Grand Prix, 122 Rue de Provence, Diamonds, Heist, $, How to Steal a Diamond in one Uneasy Lesson, M*A*S*H, Airport 75 (and you're right, Graham - that is a real classic  ) Ben-Hur vols 1 & 2, The Omen, The Eiger Sanction, Yanks, The Thomas Crown Affair, Battle of Britain, Guns of Navarone, The Big Gundown, The Italian Job, Rollercoaster, A Man and a Woman, Z, Serpico, Amarcord, The Dove, Holocaust 2000, A Bridge Too Far, Midnight Express, Rene la Canne, La Cage Aux Folles, My Name is Nobody... etc etc.
In the end I had about 200 LPs, almost all of which I eventually sold (including the Barrys and Morricones) when our first child came along. By then it was CDs that I collected, and I only kept a few LPs, which I still have today, even though I have no way of playing them.
Some of the composers I discovered at that time are still real favourites behind JB and EM - Addison, Legrand, Budd, Williams, Q Jones. They've been joined by others since then of course. I've become less fond of a few - in other words, some achieved a level of affection in the 70s that still applies today, but one or two have gone backwards. Mainly because people bang on and on about how much I ought to love them. Illogical, but it's true. No names, no pack drill.
Interesting topic, Kev.
TG
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