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 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 8:40 AM   
 By:   connorb93   (Member)

What's everyone's opinions on combined album cues? I for one find it annoying if there's a few cues edited together (or crossfaded) and the titles don't reflect that there's a combination, or what scene they belong to.

So does everyone prefer long suites of combined cues or would you rather have every individual cue by itself?

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 8:47 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

As a general rule, I do not like combined cues. I don't care if that means we get five cues that are 30 seconds long.

Now, if the cues fit, as the Challenger piece with the Main Titles from "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home" (Intrada) and another pairing of two cues that I can't recall the names of from "Baby: Secret of the Lost Legend" (also Intrada), I can accept it. EDIT: I should add those two examples gives a second or half second between cues so you can edit them apart if need be.


But the real evil is crossfades. Especially crossfades that cut off parts of openings and closings, leaving a owner unable to seperate the cues (more damning if the score has never been released before so you can't even get an older release); and crossfading unrelated cues -- especially ones that don't go together at all.

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 9:30 AM   
 By:   The Thing   (Member)

It all depends.

Being a Prog Rock fan, I absolutely love long tracks.

So, if it's a "suite" of cues like Zimmer has done at times on the past on his CDs, then I prefer that to individual short cues, even if it is an arrangement done like that especially for the album release.

However, if it's just a lot of short cues glued together to make a longer one, and it is still noticeable where track breaks should be, then I can't really see the point in making them into one track if they still sound like lots of short ones.

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 9:33 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

We'll get essentially two camps responding on this.

One group wants each individual segment of music as heard or written for the film, both to hear all of the music and as Justin notes to pick favorite cues for individual order and preference.

The other group wants a more musically satisfying representation of the score, and typically we (yes, I'm one of these) don't care as much about strict chronology or cross-fades, especially if the cross-fades were built into the score by the composer (which is often the case, because many times music doesn't so much end as stop in movies).

So I don't recall ever being unhappy with combined cues, and I only sometimes care about whether they are even from different parts of the movie. I'm more interested in a satisfying musical whole, and a lot of short cues is not usually as musically satisfying when you're going for the whole effect.

EDIT: I stand corrected, as The Thing has shown. It doesn't have to be all one or the other. And I do agree that the combining should make sense, but the jury is still out on that. I loved John William's segues in the original Star Wars OST, but just recently someone else said one didn't make sense at all, so there you go. (Zimmer is great at creating suites, one of the best.)

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 9:46 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Like others there's no one correct answer for me. Williams creates wonderful suites yet his scores usually flow great as C&C too.

I found over time Zimmer creates awesome suites, but his C&C's don't work on their own.

When it comes to the specialty labels, I prefer they release the scores C&C so I can make my own edits. Sometimes what they come up with editing wise is not very good. Intrada in particular has some gods awful cross-fades on a few of their releases.

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 9:54 AM   
 By:   CindyLover   (Member)

If they're really short cues, I don't mind (although I'm fine if they're separate). If it's anything like Silva Screen's Missing In Action album, we've got a problem.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 9:58 AM   
 By:   Thgil   (Member)

Solium said everything I was going to. Damn him. wink

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 10:25 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Solium said everything I was going to. Damn him. wink

Perhaps I was channeling your thoughts?!

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 10:38 AM   
 By:   Mr. Jack   (Member)

I dislike combined cues if there's one particular section I either really like, or really dislike...it annoys me that the suite of The Other on the Mephisto Waltz CD has three minutes of annoyingly stereotypical rinky-tink Chinaman music in the middle, or that the great music-box treatment of the main theme for Omega Man is buried at the tail end of a 7+ minute assemblage of five or six individual cues. frown I prefer individual cues 90% of the time, even if they're only a minute or less long.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 1:25 PM   
 By:   Per   (Member)

So does everyone prefer long suites of combined cues or would you rather have every individual cue by itself?

Every individual cue separate.

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 1:44 PM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

Annoying as fuck. I'm looking at you, Sum of All Fears. Combining 14 Months / The Deal was a big mistake.
Goldsmith was good at writing short cues. Have faith in them, don't bung them all up cuz you're worried about too many brief cues.
This is why I love the complete Total Recall. "The Implant" and "Secret Agent" are two superb short cues that can stand on their own.

If it was an original album edit that Goldsmith made while he was alive (which were usually seamless) then I get it, but c'mon. Don't try to reproduce those now by guessing what he would have done. Not cool, bruh.
Thankfully, it looks like Intrada for the most part have figured this out.

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 1:58 PM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

Annoying as fuck. I'm looking at you, Sum of All Fears. Combining 14 Months / The Deal was a big mistake.
Goldsmith was good at writing short cues. Have faith in them, don't bung them all up cuz you're worried about too many brief cues.
This is why I love the complete Total Recall. "The Implant" and "Secret Agent" are two superb short cues that can stand on their own.

If it was an original album edit that Goldsmith made while he was alive (which were usually seamless) then I get it, but c'mon. Don't try to reproduce those now by guessing what he would have done. Not cool, bruh.
Thankfully, it looks like Intrada for the most part have figured this out.


I stand with The Mutant on this, as everyone knows from my past complaining (which I stand by, especially in the case of Falling Down and The Fugitive, but there are others...oh yes, there are others...). At the end of the day, it has to sound musical. Some of the combined cues serve no musical purpose.

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 2:01 PM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

Stand By Me, Shaun.

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 4:33 PM   
 By:   Trent B   (Member)

IF they are meant to be combined then they will be that way and setup in gapless playback.

However, if they are combined and not meant to be like what The Mutant pointed out then ya that's annoying....

Superman Returns had a couple of issues like that too...

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2015 - 8:12 PM   
 By:   Browny   (Member)

The original STAR WARS (1977) had several cues that were combined/ crossfaded as an easier listening experience and were not heard separated and in their entirety until the 4CD Fox Box with additional unreleased material, followed by the Special Edition trilogy soundtracks in 1997.

Personally I prefer them separate.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2015 - 12:34 AM   
 By:   .   (Member)

I like everything separate on the CD.
I like to edit content to my own taste and if I prefer some pieces crossfaded or edited, I can do it for myself.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2015 - 12:38 AM   
 By:   governor   (Member)

John Williams is a master at combining cues. His albums from the 70s and 80s were great listening experiences and excellent musical souvenirs from the movies he was associated with.

The Empire Strikes back double LP is among the best, 1941 was fun to listen to and Empire of the Sun has also great combinations of cues.

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2015 - 9:08 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

The two biggest offenders is the unnecessarily huge "Battle Of Hoth" cue from the Sony Classical Empire Strikes Back 2CD and the equally awful climactic suite that closes LLL's Matrix Reloaded with "The Problem Is Choice/Window Switch/Neo Miraculous/No More Nebuchadnezzer/Conclusion Confusion".

Thirteen minutes? Seriously?

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2015 - 2:52 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE
"jAMES bOND aSTRONAUT- cOUNTDOWN FOR BLOFELD"
is a great example
brm

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2015 - 3:29 PM   
 By:   afn   (Member)

Listen to the 1998 McNeely PSYCHO - it sounds like a collection of tracks ready to be placed into the movie. But not like a satisfying listening experience.

Some years ago I edited all tracks into a seven part suite (with the climactic "cellar" and finale" cues edited exactly like they were in the movie) and suddenly I'm in the mind of Norman Bates.

So yes, combining cues can (maybe not always but in the case of PSYCHO most definitely) be like combining H2 and O into H2O - the latter you can drink, the former ... better not.

 
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