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 Posted:   Jul 21, 2015 - 7:32 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Did Roddenberry really pitch Trek as "Wagon Train to the Stars"? I seriously doubt he believed that.

when "The Cage" pilot was cobbled together for home video, he provided an intro/outro, mentioning the "wagon train" pitch. He used this because Westerns dominated TV screens then, and he wanted to reassure any sponsors that ST would have the same raw appeal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4crko7wIbpw

 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2015 - 9:25 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Thanks. That's included on my "Tricorder" edition of TOS. I just never bothered to watch it.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2015 - 11:56 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Thanks. That's included on my "Tricorder" edition of TOS. I just never bothered to watch it.

it's on the blu-ray as well (along with the improved all-color version). Basically he used the pitch for exactly as you described. smile

 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2015 - 2:09 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

I haven't seen but a few episodes from the last few seasons and only tuned into the series finale as an obligation to see how it all wrapped up. I never warmed to the TNG crew and I wonder if they ever warmed to one another, such was that show's often cool, detached atmosphere. That Dr Crusher woman has one of the most sleep-inducing voices I've ever heard; she just drains the energy from every scene in which she appears.

And she was the better of the two doctors!

The crew most certainly warmed to each other. If you have a few minutes, check out the outtakes from the recent Bluray sets (they're all over Youtube). You can tell these people loved coming to work with one another.

 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2015 - 2:21 PM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

I just watched the video. I liked the song that Michael Dorn looked awkward being stuck in the middle with Gene "Sweater Vest" Roddenberry. Stewart's laughter was great, too.

I don't doubt that the actors got along; that's obvious. I just wonder if there was a mandate or something that there must always be a seriousness most of the time, because the humor and hobbies of the crew (Riker's trombone playing etc.) felt forced to me. I don't know. It's probably just "my problem." After all, I never had a problem with Wesley Crusher or Dr. Pulaski; most fans detest them.

 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2015 - 2:56 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

The "Big Three" made that show great. That's what Star Trek has always been to me: those characters and their interactions with one another and how they deal with whatever adventure they're involved with at the moment.

Yes, I said this somewhere else. Shatner, Nimoy and Kelly were lightning in a bottle. It's what made the show work. You can't just hire new actors and re-catch that magic again.

 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2015 - 3:25 PM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

And yet Star Trek somehow struggled on with, let's see, four additional series - each of which with many more episodes than the original - plus four additional movies, all without the Troika of Destiny.

I defer to no-one in my love of the original series, but for me and for many Trekkiers Star Trek works well in every incarnation, even with the various changes and compromises (except for me the doomed Enterprise, which was forced into retcon and retread hell). There are episodes of TNG, DS9 and Voyager that for me are as strong as and sometimes stronger than the first's strongest episodes.

So it isn't only about the T of D. Though Solium is absolutely right, Shatner/Nimoy/Kelley were lightning in a bottle and that strength of character dynamic was never captured again. Armin Shimerman and Rene Auberjonois come close with their double act in DS9, but they together weren't central to the arc of the series, so it never mattered as much.

(Should that be Trek-a of Destiny? Trekkers of Destiny?)

 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2015 - 3:42 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

I am four seasons into DS-9 and this probably comes closer to TOS than anything since it went of the air.
And, please, i dont wanna hear about that shameless rip-off TNG
brm

 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2015 - 4:12 PM   
 By:   drop_forge   (Member)

Yes, I said this somewhere else. Shatner, Nimoy and Kelly were lightning in a bottle. It's what made the show work. You can't just hire new actors and re-catch that magic again.

Abso-freakin-lutely. That said, I haven't seen all of ST:TNG, but what I have seen was pretty good.

 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2015 - 9:55 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

One more thing about Star Trek pitched as Wagon Train to the stars: this always struck me as an apt description of the first series, and elements throughout all the series.

For Wagon Train and Star Trek, there is an ongoing journey with new destinations. The people involved are venturing into uncharted land / strange new worlds (for them, anyway, though there are often natives there already). The stories can be about people / aliens / situations encountered on the journey or individuals within the wagon train / ship - as happens repeatedly in Star Trek (all those female scientists introduced and dispatched in a single episode). Or the focus can be on the main, regular characters - or in some combination - main character getting involved with someone encountered on the journey. Many, many episodes turn on a moral crisis or drama of good/evil. And episodes could cross many genres - drama, comedy, romance, thriller.

Context is everything, so a western like Wagon Train and a science fiction franchise like Star Trek are remotely connected at best, but much of the scaffolding is the same.

 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2015 - 10:15 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

While that is all true I don't think Paramount took it that way when Roddenberry pitched the series to them. They were thinking more like what Lucas eventually did with Star Wars. A character like Han Solo roaming the galaxy is probably much closer to what they envisioned. Instead, Roddenberry gave them a cerebral pilot. Thus it was re-shot with more emphases on an obvious villain, and rolling on the ground fist fights.

 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2015 - 11:03 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

No argument, and I'm not thinking about this really from the point of view of the pitch or giving the company what it wants, just about the limited number of ways you can set up a long-running episodic program that is not designed to be a serial.

Also, to be fair, there are rolling on the ground fights in the first pilot too. With monsters, even!

 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2015 - 11:50 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Also, to be fair, there are rolling on the ground fights in the first pilot too. With monsters, even!

Yeah I guess it did. Brain fart on my part! LOL

 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2015 - 1:26 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

...my problem." ..., I never had a problem with Wesley Crusher ...

That doesn't surprise me in the least
brm

 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2015 - 2:19 PM   
 By:   BornOfAJackal   (Member)

Yes, the current iteration of Star Trek as a series of theatrical features is a play for the same people who are going to see Ant-Man and The Hunger Games. This is Hollywood as it is; not as we would wish it to be.

Yet, eventually, Viacom will seek to squeeze more revenue out of its property after the J.J. formulation has run its course and the "millennials" have absorbed the canon of the past. The time will then be ripe for Star Trek to be lovingly rendered as it should be: as remakes/expansions of original series episodes which had only a fraction of their potential realized the first time around.

I give it about fifteen years.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2015 - 6:57 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Drop_Forge's first thought was the same as mine.

 
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