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Posted: |
Oct 5, 2015 - 2:23 AM
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By: |
TheSeeker
(Member)
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Here's an excerpt about Williams that struck me as a very astute observation by Previn, and yet it also bemused me why Williams would think like this about himself.
"He’s wonderfully talented and a tremendous orchestrator, but he doesn’t believe it. And a big piece—it’s a lot of pages. I don’t think that he has belief enough in his own talent, even though he has more than enough talent to do it."
And later on, he's got this to say about film composers:
If I were still working with films, which I haven’t done now since the mid ‘60s, I would probably fall back on certain clichés that I know work since I don’t want to spend a lifetime at it. Johnny Williams wrote in Tanglewood in the bungalow next to mine, and then he’d have his orchestrator [Herbert Spencer] come up and he’d hand him whatever he was working on. Johnny handed him something that looked like Meistersinger for God’s sake, and he said, “Let me explain this to you.” Herbie looked at the music, and he said, “No, I know this one.” The orchestrator didn’t mean any insult at all, but it was funny. I could see where he could take that very badly. But on the other hand, it was probably true. It was probably done on purpose.
If you write movie music, you’re never given enough time, and they don’t want to hear anything brand new anyway. So it is very likely to be things that they’ve done before. You can always tell a Korngold score. You can always tell a Rózsa score. You can always tell an Elmer Bernstein score, because it’s watered down Copland. When Elmer Bernstein got a western to do, he’d say, “Oh yeah, I did Magnificent Seven. Let’s do that again.” There’s nothing wrong with it. It worked very well. It’s interesting music. You’re not going to wrack your brain thinking of novelties in a medium that doesn’t require it anyway. A very good film composer used to be a man called Jerry Goldsmith—brilliant and interesting music.
Also watch the video at the end if you have a desire to hear Andre Previn say "Fuck you!" 
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If you write movie music, you’re never given enough time, and they don’t want to hear anything brand new anyway.
I know this as "Do the same thing, only different," and "Don't change anything; just make it better."
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Previn is delusional, to say the least. He completely disdains his Hollywood work.
Yet, I have to tell you I have never heard a single original piece by "classical Previn" that could compare or compete with his Hollywood work.
He's a bitter man, that Andre Previn.
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Posted: |
Oct 6, 2015 - 10:12 AM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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Honestly, I think he's less bitter than self-loathing. He's almost born-again -- upon grasping the greatness of classical works, he deemed himself unworthy. Now his Hollywood past so embarrasses him that he feels compelled to distance himself and dismiss the whole thing as hackwork. His stated position seems to be admiration for those able to sell out, possibly to keep from offending his friends. Like the job interviewee who insists his biggest weakness is that he works too hard, he manages to fake humility while pumping himself up.
The shame, as somebody has stated here already, is that his concert works are not, to me, nearly the equal of his best film works. My best friend, who owns several thousand classical discs and maybe three film scores (and once worked for the Metropolitan Opera!), feels the same way.
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What's with all this 'subculture gossip' dissing of poor Andre?
(1) He has a love/hate relation to Hollywood, and got fed up with the restrictions. He's perfectly right to say that film score composers there are typecast and need not stretch themselves. Some do, but most aren't even allowed to now.
(2) I have some recorded interviews he did with John Williams where he asks Williams quite bluntly why he never chooses to publish his 'drawers full of manuscripts' and Williams quite emphatically says he wouldn't care to. The anecdotes about Williams' shyness in that arena are simply true. They are friends, and it's a topic recurrent with them. Williams is the 'I'm not comfortable putting out what's less than perfect' type, whilst Previn is the 'I must create and pour out what's gushing through me' type. Why manufacture a polarised crisis over that?
(3) He's creative and does only what he's inspired to. That's good fortune. He's not inspired by movies any more.
(4) I'm hoping the joke by the previous poster about Germans being self-loathing is some existential allusion to Germanic dualism or something along the lines of Goethe etc.. Because, given that Andre is Jewish, it's an odd statement.
The guy has lived music and life to the full. Give him a break. I think it's a very joyous interview.
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Honestly, I think he's less bitter than self-loathing. He's almost born-again -- upon grasping the greatness of classical works, he deemed himself unworthy. Now his Hollywood past so embarrasses him that he feels compelled to distance himself and dismiss the whole thing as hackwork. His stated position seems to be admiration for those able to sell out, possibly to keep from offending his friends. Like the job interviewee who insists his biggest weakness is that he works too hard, he manages to fake humility while pumping himself up.
He does NOT diss film music and says there are wonderful scores: he simply questions why one would STAY there and not want to evolve. He praises Goldsmith and Korngold.
He 'grasped the greatness of classical works' as you say, long before Hollywood, and gave lunchtime classical concerts in the studio soundstages at MGM.
He's not 'pumping himself up': he's doing what he enjoys and feels motivated to do, for works he thinks WORTHY.
His comments on Bernstein and Mag 7 relate to the subsequent rehashings. Real musicians spot thematic variation where others don't. They want their variations in motifs and phrases CLEAR in associations WITHIN a movie, but NOT SO OBVIOUS from movie to movie!
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DP .
P.S. The punter or fan may not care that every Moross sounds like 'The Big Country' or every E. Bernstein western like Mag 7, but the composers THEMSELVES get tired: they want to develop. Their aficionados don't want them to.
Do you want these artists to die for you?
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I will not give Andre Previn a break and I can't see why any real film music fan would want to give him a break for this comment in particular: "You can always tell an Elmer Bernstein score, because it’s watered down Copland."
That is 1) insulting to a great composer and 2) downright ignorant. Now he could have made a comment saying something like "Elmer Bernstein channeled Aaron Copland for The Magnificent Seven, and due to its success unfortunately every western score he wrote after that had to sound the same." Even that isn't quite true, but it'd be a forgivable statement with some degree of truth in it. But saying ALL Bernstein is "watered down Copland" is an insult, plain and simple. Bernstein displayed a great deal of variety in his writing and most of his output could not be mistaken for Copland at all. And Previn feels free to be so judgmental because he left Hollywood and feels he is above it. Well fine but I don't have to approve and support his statement, and neither should anybody else.
I'm very much into classical music as well as film music, and it's true that a lot of film music is creatively bankrupt. It's gotten worse in recent decades thanks to temp-tracking and Media Ventures/Remote Control. But concert hall music has its own problems and it should stop acting so superior. There is great work to be found in both "areas" and frankly as one who's heard a great deal of Andre Previn music of both types, his film music by and large is FAR more interesting than his concert music (or opera) on a *purely compositional basis*. So however much he thinks he avoided "selling out" to Hollywood or whatever, good for him. But his music for the concert hall is a lot less inspired.
And the idea that John Williams is reluctant to write concert music is obviously ludicrous. Maybe there's some bit of inside info about why he specifically didn't feel like writing a violin concerto for Anne-Sophie Mutter, I don't know. But it has nothing to do with him lacking confidence about writing concert music or even concertos in particular. If he lacked confidence, why did he write a cello concerto (for Yo-Yo Ma!), bassoon concerto, tuba concerto, horn concerto, harp concerto, oboe concerto, viola concerto, clarinet concerto, trombone concerto, flute concerto, all over the entire course of his career?! Oh, and what's this? The second concerto he ever wrote was a violin concerto! So I guess he doesn't have a problem with writing for the instrument either -- he even wrote another concertante work for violin and orchestra in 2000, for Gil Shaham. Oh, and in 2007 a double concerto for violin and viola. Yep. Previn is full of it.
Yavar
P.S. The fact that the tone of the interview might be "joyous" and positive in general does not excuse his dismissive remarks of his fellow composers. Doesn't take anything away from his music, but he's being a jerk. Virgil Thomson was an excellent composer who similarly dismissed (and sometimes trashed) other good composers' works in his capacity as a critic.
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All this highfalutin outrage and tossing around of insults because you disagree with his opinions and his general derogation of film music? If anyone on this old earth has earned his opinions on Hollywood and film music, it's this guy. Odd way to speak of a composer that so many here profess to respect.
Thanks, William, for writing some sensible responses here amidst all this grotesque folderal.
And by the way, just so we don't mistake a few opinions here for fact, I find his concert and serious music every bit the equal of his film music. Listening happily to his Triolet for Brass as we speak.
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There's a story Elmer Bernstein himself told about a time when he was depressed as to typecasting, and felt stuck creatively. He was sitting beside a 'coin-in-the-slot' kids' rocking-horse and a little boy came up, not knowing who Elmer was, and jumped on its back, with a coin inserted. The machine started playing the Mag 7 theme, and he suddenly felt better about his legacy.
That's the dilemma: one's own expectations and ambitions by one's own criteria, versus the actual thing that's recognised by the public.
That anecdote shows that what makes US happy as punters differs from what makes THEM happy as creatives.
I'm certain Andre had no contempt for Elmer: He spoke as one composer to another, "Elmer ... You don't have to DO that .... You're better ... "
As regards Williams, I'll repeat it: it's a fact that he has tons of compositions that he won't allow to see the light of day. That's just a fact. He seems happy staying in cinema: Andre wasn't.
Don't forget that Previn walked a tightrope in the '70s, popularising concert music, and bolstering the better examples of film music. To do that THEN, you had to overcome snobbery and inertia, and to know what to diss, and to what audience. It was a tough tightrope and involved a lot of clever devil's advocacy.
If he had really wanted to ditch his filmscore legacy, then why write 'No Minor Chords', or praise the Hollywood music community in his '4 Horsemen' notes, or ask Deutsche Grammofon to let him conduct a Korngold film album .... or make a film music edition of his Pittsburgh series? He must be a masochist!
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WILLIAMDMCCRUM, is the interview you mentioned with Previn and Williams anywhere online? Just curious!
I recorded it off UK TV, either BBC or Channel 4, but on VHS yonks ago, and didn't transfer it. A very kind poster here sent me a CDR of a similar interview between Previn and Williams in his 'High Performance' series though.
I'm not sure if either are on YouTube ... yet ....
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) 
