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Posted: |
Apr 11, 2016 - 11:03 AM
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By: |
RoryR
(Member)
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I never saw the film or have any connection to the story it tells, but I've known about the Goldsmith score for years. Recently, however, I sampled the whole soundtrack for the first time in my life -- in preparation for my episode on sports movie scores -- and found it quite alright. Yes, I still maintain my controversial opinion that Goldsmith didn't know how to use electronics properly, but there's a "dated" charm in some of the tracks, even the synth ones. A bit like GREMLINS. I saw the movie whe it first came out and several times since, the last being in HD on some satellite channel, but I only recently aquired the soundtrack CD. I've always thought the use of synths was wrong because the film was a period one set in the early '50s. The score is perhaps a product of its time when the use of synths was suddenly all the rage, but although I believe Goldsmith liked using the synths to make sounds like a dribbling basketball, it's kind of too bad the score has that gimmick because otherwise it's quite fine.
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This was really wonderful to see. As an Indiana native, these small towns like this really don't change much at all. That's the charm of Indiana I guess. I miss it everyday. Thanks Zooba for finding this and posting this, a very well done piece!
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Posted: |
Apr 11, 2016 - 11:01 PM
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By: |
RonBurbella
(Member)
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Thor... please...please...see the movie. So many people consider HOOSIERS one of the best sports films ever made. And they are right. Once you see the film, you'll realize much better what Jerry Goldsmith tried to accomplish. Forget the electronic basketball music. It's OK. But there is so much heartfelt, such emotionally appropriate orchestral scoring, that I can see why it was an Oscar-nominated score. Parts of it still choke me up, even though I've heard it many, many times. By the way, Jerry lost the Oscar to Herbie Hancock for "ROUND MIDNIGHT. Now I'll have to admit that I haven't seen THAT film, because I'm not that big on jazz. Am I missing something? Leonard Maltin gives it four stars. Hmmm. Now, tell me if I'm wrong, but it's been my observation over the years that these kind of films seem to have more of an emotional effect on those of us who actually PLAYED the sports and competed on a team. If you read the comments below the video, quite a few folks left comments that they got teary-eyed watching the film. I did too. And although it was only a local game, I made the buzzer-beating winning jump shot from the top of the key just like Jimmy Chitwood did when I was 17. So that moment in the film has special emotional meaning for me. Why do big grown men start sobbing out loud at the end of FIELD OF DREAMS when Kevin Costner asks the ghost of his dead Dad to have a catch? I did too. I don't think some computer-game nerd will have that same degree of the emotional frame of reference as those who played and competed. Am I right, or am I off base (sports pun intended)? Ron Burbella
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Posted: |
Apr 12, 2016 - 1:42 AM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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I think what you should have said is that Goldsmith didn't use electronics the way YOU would like them to be used. I don't believe there has been any World Court legal decision on the "proper" way to use electronics. My opinion is that Goldsmith used electronics a lot better than most other film composers of his day. My measurement isn't really other film composers, though, but rather electronica artists. IMO, Goldsmith misunderstood some basic properties about the sounds, how to construct with them and especially how they should be woven into acoustic landscapes. This isn't true only for HOOSIERS, but a host of different scores -- especially from the 80s onwards. Still, some "charming" scores could come out of it, and this is an example of that. Call it a guilty pleasure if you will. I may see the film at some point. I usually steer away from films about baseball and American football, as I have no interest in or knowledge about those sports, but basketball is a bit more popular over here; and it's a sport I enjoy. One of the alltime best documentaries is HOOP DREAMS about that same sport.
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Posted: |
Apr 12, 2016 - 5:37 AM
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By: |
Tall Guy
(Member)
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Now, tell me if I'm wrong, but it's been my observation over the years that these kind of films seem to have more of an emotional effect on those of us who actually PLAYED the sports and competed on a team. .......... Why do big grown men start sobbing out loud at the end of FIELD OF DREAMS when Kevin Costner asks the ghost of his dead Dad to have a catch? I did too. I don't think some computer-game nerd will have that same degree of the emotional frame of reference as those who played and competed. Am I right, or am I off base (sports pun intended)? Ron, you may well be right. Another scene that crept up on me (ie as well as Field of Dreams) was Parenthood, where the kid unexpectedly makes the catch at the end. As a youngster I'd throw a ball about with my dad and brother, and those are some of my happiest and most care-free memories. Now that neither of them is still with us, it adds a poignancy that is almost unbearable when I see a similar scene. Without such memories, would it really have the same effect? I doubt it. And in my reveries, I'm not even going to point out the score that was really cheated by the win for Round Midnight....
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Posted: |
Apr 14, 2016 - 6:54 PM
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By: |
AHerrera83
(Member)
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I think it also has to do with how the term Electronica is being used. Now, I'm no expert on European electronic music, but I do know that the term is mostly associated with the Berlin School (and later used for all the techno, house and dance subgenres of the 90s), but that's just a fraction in the world of electronic music. IMO, Goldsmith's use of synths is nothing like Schulze or Göttsching, but I do see a fit with electronic art music of the 70s and 80s, like Jarre, Vangelis or Larry Fast's seminal "Synergy", which I find more complex and satisfying (but then again, that's a matter of taste). I think Goldsmith's Runaway is his best example of this type of music and fits right in because of the time period in which it was produced. Hoosiers is (again IMO) more of a hybrid of this and Goldsmith's more lyrical style. It was risky and very counterintuitive to use this approach for such a folksy kind of movie, but works extremely well and really pumps up the energy and emotiveness of the film. In that respect, Rudy is a more direct approach and together, both films and scores are among the best for sports movies.
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I think that LSO electronics-less version is a real treat. Which album is it? I wonder if anyone's ever performed it with live "basketball players" in the percussion section. Maybe that would be too distracting or humorous, for a live audience.
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Posted: |
Apr 16, 2016 - 3:12 AM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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Despite trying to soften the language with "IMO", you are still trying to deal in absolutes here. Saying Goldsmith "misunderstood" [electronic] sounds and how they "should" be woven in. Sorry, that is still just your PERSONAL PREFERENCE and not an indication of any "proper" technique. There are a lot of music professionals as well as fans that consider your opinion just plain wrong. As a well-paid and well-respected music professional with numerous accolades and awards and the respect of almost everyone he worked with, I think Goldsmith had a lot better understanding of the "the basic properties of the sounds" and "how to construct with them" than you do. Fair enough. There is definitely subjectivity involved in such an evaluation, but as a longtime fan of electronic music (from the early days to contemporary genres), I have my own idea of what constitutes quality and understanding of the idiom. As I've said repeatedly, I don't doubt Goldsmith's curiousity for it, but I don't think he understood its properties or application very well, neither in itself nor how one should use it organically with orchestras. I'm well aware this could be considered a controversial statement -- especially around here -- but it's one I believe in very strongly. That being said, I DO find stuff like GREMLINS and HOOSIERS a bit "cute". I call them guilty pleasures.
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