Interesting topic and Joan, I love the amount of thought you had put into this. As a small, shall I say, EXTREMELY, small niche of music lovers and enthusiasts that we are, it sure is amazing just how much vitriol is put in so many different discussions and subjects.
I found a great way around this without losing any of the discussions or not being able to follow and contribute to the discussions without falling into the negativity and argumentative trap:
The Ignore feature.
Reason being is that those that I have put on ignore are those that typically start start it. There are only a couple of them but they say so much crap I just got tired of trying to dodge their idiocy. There are about 5 more that more often than not will be just be flat out negative on virtually everything, with 2 of those hating virtually every single film they watch which makes me wonder how in hell do they enjoy any of the scores and if they hate today's movies so much, why even bother? I read some the crap about how HORRIBLE "The Jungle Book" was made me think, "what movie did they just see" or did they even see it all? Some were complaining about it simply for the fact that it was being called a "live action remake" where its basically one human with CGI characters, so they bitched about that.
Disagreements are fine. But being a chronic whiner/complainer/troll/button pusher, et al simply for the sake of being on is not, hence why the owners of the website have their rules. And for that I appreciate it very much.
To DeputyRiley, I've always liked the positive tone of your posts and would encourage you to not let the negative nitwits run you off. Seriously, try the ignore feature. It really does work wonders. Trust me, you won't miss a thing and it makes things here a lot better.
Good comments, Tom, and thanks but I think it is edwz who is so eloquent.
edwz, you may only be 5'2" but I'd never call you a pussy. You can hold your own, and I'm glad.
As always, Sean gave us great insight into the real world and the cyber world.
My only concern is that I know we've had these type of conversations before and those with leprous spots and uber negative blood won't change. Maybe I should use the ignore button.
Those with leprous spots and uber negative blood won't change. Maybe I should use the ignore button.
I think saying that some that post here have "leprous spots" is a pretty negative thing to say, so negativity is universal and relative. What many call negative is simply something contrary to your view. If you state you like something and another person in response says "I don't like it," then you're going to take that as negative, but that person may have a very good reason for not liking the thing. In their view they're not being negative at all, but honest in how they feel about it. Simply dismissing them as negative is lazy.
Those with leprous spots and uber negative blood won't change. Maybe I should use the ignore button.
I think saying that some that post here have "leprous spots" is a pretty negative thing to say, so negativity is universal and relative. What many call negative is simply something contrary to your view. If you state you like something and another person in response says "I don't like it," then you're going to take that as negative, but that person may have a very good reason for not liking the thing. In their view they're not being negative at all, but honest in how they feel about it. Simply dismissing them as negative is lazy.
Your defense of the right to be negative is true and is subjective to be sure but you seem to have completely missed the point. If you just relax and read what Deputy and others here have said is that the much of the negativity here is not only nasty to the point of personal attacks but continuous and habitual by pretty much the same person/persons. As stated before, disagreeing is fine, but when it is by the same person/persons, it's painfully obvious it's not just exercising their"right" to disagree, it's a pattern. It's for all intense and purposes a moment that they just want or flat out cant help to be a complete asshole.
But hey...feel free to disagree which I am sure you will. Your mind is made up and you know, I'm totally fine with it. But don't mistake this conversation for one against disagreements. That is flat out inaccurate.
Your defense of the right to be negative is true and is subjective to be sure but you seem to have completely missed the point. If you just relax and read what Deputy and others here have said is that the much of the negativity here is not only nasty to the point of personal attacks but continuous and habitual by pretty much the same person/persons. As stated before, disagreeing is fine, but when it is by the same person/persons, it's painfully obvious it's not just exercising their"right" to disagree, it's a pattern. It's for all intense and purposes a moment that they just want or flat out cant help to be a complete asshole.
But hey...feel free to disagree which I am sure you will. Your mind is made up and you know, I'm totally fine with it. But don't mistake this conversation for one against disagreements. That is flat out inaccurate.
Now I would call this a nasty response. You say you're sure I'll disagree and seem to know my mind so well that you just know it's made up. That to me is being the word you use for some. Not pretty.
So, what is this thread about? A call for conformity? A plea for everyone to just be nice? OK, maybe some need to start by looking in the mirror.
A few observations regarding nastiness here and elsewhere on the internet, in respect to Edwina and Joan, who soldier on through all the muck year after year.
1) For anyone who has worked in a customer service capacity, or in any field where you get a lot of customer or audience feedback, the overwhelming majority of comments tend to be negative. People write negative letters, make negative phone calls, send negative emails, letters to the editor, comments online, etc. Why? Because more often than not people have a tendency to be more motivated to write about something they disagree with or are upset by. And they can sometimes go crazily extreme. It's clear that this happens on this site, best exemplified by threads about limited releases that had a few people getting crazily negative while the darn thing was selling out. So apparently a lot of people disagreed with the negators, but the negativity seemed loudest.
2) Anonymity breeds vitriol. There's a lot written about this online - that the freedom that comes with anonymity leads to exaggeration and and extraordinary nastiness and threats. And sometimes people even back down when they are called on it. This recent article is a nice sum-up of one category: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/14/insults-rape-threats-writers-online-harassment.
3) I don't think it's true to say that people are worse than ever, I just don't think it has ever before been as easy to be mean without consequence. But this is poison-pen-letter territory, anonymous nastiness that's been with us forever. The wonderful (and terrifying) French movie The Raven (Le Corbeau) by Clouzot is a great primer on this, highly recommended if you're ok with subtitles.
4) And the nastiness here is almost never the majority. I know this for sure because I have been quite liberal in the use of "ignore" in the past, sometimes quite a long list. But in recent years there are just three or so people who I ignore all the time because I find their comments never add light to the conversation, but just more muck. It's just that all too often it's easier to remember a slap than a kiss.
5) I'm posting less and less as well for the same reasons as the Deputy, whose postings I too will miss, so that I don't get sucked into useless negativity.
Sean, I read each of your well written points and could not agree more. In fact, I am kicking myself that I did not include some of what you wrote. My first job at a large corporation introduced me to exactly what your #1 point was referring to. We had a customer who submitted his payment in an envelope covered ( and I mean covered) with insults about our company, including profanities and names of employees he had dealt with. The U. S. Postal Service delivered this customer's payment faithfully, insults and all. I am not sure that would happen today.
The "Anonymity breeds vitriol." statement is stellar. To me, this is the essence of the troll phenomenon. Gutless and anonymous as I call them. The internet has just given them more exposure and a new tool.
Good comments, Tom, and thanks but I think it is edwz who is so eloquent.
edwz, you may only be 5'2" but I'd never call you a pussy. You can hold your own, and I'm glad.
As always, Sean gave us great insight into the real world and the cyber world.
My only concern is that I know we've had these type of conversations before and those with leprous spots and uber negative blood won't change. Maybe I should use the ignore button.
joan, your concern is justified but I think this whole discussion is worth it. Thank you for being a part of it. Your terms are not negative and you are "spot on" that nothing will change. That fact has been demonstrated here. But as Tom so succinctly stated, there are only a couple of them but they do loom large.
Finally, if you think that putting a sock in it is censorship, I guess all the time we moms spent trying to teach you Thumper's rule was a waste time. "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all" Actually, that is going a bit too far. Maybe I'll just say give your opinion, disagree, chastise, be sarcastic but don't be a jackass about it. At some point, your words lose all meaning and intent and become just ugly, hollow words.
I've noticed that too, or they will reply to the post, but only to correct some one or belittle them and not actually CONTRIBUTE anything about the topic at hand. One person in particular comes to mind who gets his rocks off so to speak on elevating himself with his superiority and correcting folks. No, this person is not in the soundtrack business btw.
We all have the same love of soundtracks, let's enjoy it!
Rory, I have said in many places said that I don't care if someone disagrees with me or others. If I like a film score and someone finds it rather generic, that's fine. I'm not censoring opinions. We are all here talking about HOW one disagrees. Sometimes the vitriol behind certain comments is extremely cruel, like a cyber acid bath. Not cool IMHO.
Rory, I have said in many places said that I don't care if someone disagrees with me or others. If I like a film score and someone finds it rather generic, that's fine. I'm not censoring opinions. We are all here talking about HOW one disagrees. Sometimes the vitriol behind certain comments is extremely cruel, like a cyber acid bath. Not cool IMHO.
I wish I could see some examples of this. It must get really bad around here somewhere. I have yet to run into. The worst thing I got into was an arguement over whether there wil be a PROMETHEUS 2, and no matter what I got called, I never found it anything worse than amusing. I just find it easy to adapt an attitude of "Who cares?" "Who the hell are you?" "You don't know me." and finally "FU!"
Rory, I have said in many places said that I don't care if someone disagrees with me or others. If I like a film score and someone finds it rather generic, that's fine. I'm not censoring opinions. We are all here talking about HOW one disagrees. Sometimes the vitriol behind certain comments is extremely cruel, like a cyber acid bath. Not cool IMHO.
Thanks, Joan and Edwina for your kind words. I was inspired to write by your very thoughtful comments.
I think the discussions with Rory here nicely exemplify the problem. Saying in response to the concerns raised here that posting is "not for pussies" at least implies an insult, as does the "watch Mr. Rogers" comment. But indeed some of the posters on the side of a less negative tone have also been insulting to the negative posters, as Rory noted.
It did seem to me that Rory's original post was almost intended to showcase the issue Edwina raised. But reading the back and forth again makes me wonder if either side is really intending to insult each other, or perhaps doesn't realize the potential insult someone can take from any negative comment that seems to dismiss or condemn those who are different from the poster.
It takes me back to an epiphany I came to some time ago that I try to remind myself whenever I feel insulted, threatened or defensive. Offense cannot be given, it can only be taken. I can choose to be offended by what someone else says, or I can say, as Rory did less temperately, "who cares?" (I say less temperately advisedly, because resorting, even in one's mind, to "FU", does nothing positive and simply reinforces discourtesy, and as Hannibal Lector says, "discourtesy is unspeakably ugly to me." )
That's exactly what I meant: let it be water off a duck's back. By not being a pussy, I mean don't be so sensitive. Don't expect people to share your same sensibilities -- because they don't. The better you know people, the better you can deal with them. And remember -- and I kind of learned this from Mr. Spock -- you're emotions are your own. No one makes you mad, for example, you allow yourself to get mad. The title of this thread is worth thinking about. Everybody... chill.
Once you understand that your remarks were taken as insults, a good approach is to ease off on inflammatory language, as in the current example. And this is the other problem here. It's rare indeed when someone walks back an intemperate remark.
It is possible to express strong disagreement with respect. But it's so much easier to do it with derision.....For me, the most disheartening recent example is the documentary, now on Netflix, called Best of Enemies, showcasing the 1968 Republican convention tv debates between William F. Buckley and Gore Vidal. What could have been a principled and edifying conversation between two smart articulate men is just an awful exchange of name calling that does nothing but embarrass both of them.
....William F. Buckley and Gore Vidal. What could have been a principled and edifying conversation between two smart articulate men is just an awful exchange of name calling that does nothing but embarrass both of them.
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