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I agree that this needs a new Re-master without dialogue !
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Produced by Ford who (no offense to the guy)people consider to have a Tin Ear. And an admitted love of dialogue.
You should have some "Need to Know" information
1.) Alan and I co-produced that album, he was the one who remixed the album for that release (He was after all the co-performer and Co-composer on it, so what likes should matter now shouldn't it?)
Also John Carpenter heard the master before it was released and signed off on it.
2.) The Dialogue was my idea, it was carry over from the HALLOWEEN release we did earlier.
We however made sure that anyone could program out those tracks very easily if they don't want them, as a matter of fact in 2016 all you have to do is UN-CLICK them in ITUNES and you'll never heard them.
Remember the album was designed for fans of ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK, not so much for soundtrack collectors, however that's why we made sure you can program out those tracks if you just wanted the music.
There IS this - http://lightintheattic.net/releases/770-escape-from-new-york
Makes me *really* want a working turntable.
As others have pointed out, this appears to the be same master that SILVA released.
Ford A. Thaxton
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I only listen to maybe one or two tracks from the Silva version. Not only is it a weird mix, but it also sounds like Howarth added "new" synth layers in some places. (Atlanta Bank Robbery)
I prefer to stick with the original varese album. It would be great to have the film version of the end titles one day.
If you want to ask him, go over to alanhowarth.com and send him an email, he does read them and I'm sure he'll be happy to answer any reasonable questions.
Ford A. Thaxton
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Posted: |
Nov 21, 2016 - 1:11 PM
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By: |
Nexus6BT
(Member)
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This thread may not be the best to post my question but it was the one with the last activity in it.
I owned the score first on LP, then the Varese-CD and also the expanded Silva.
I owned the movie first as copy of the German-VHS and then the old US LaserDisc.
Don't know how many times I have watched the movie and listened to the score.
So I was quite shocked when I got the US MGM-Special Edition-DVD a few years ago because there are a few seconds when the score sounds so weird.
Well, back then I thought that it was a mistake and future releases might correct this but I just purchased the recent German Blu-Ray and the problem is still there in the Englisch language track.
The German dub sounds correct - at least for me.
The problem starts at around 1:04:08 and lasts for a few seconds and it sounds like the music stems were out-of-sync or someone/something created strange echos.
So is this mix now how the music should sound in the film ??
Can't remember what happens at that specific moment in the film, but the 5.1 remix on that Special Edition DVD (which, I think, has been used for just about every release since) is a weird mix overall.
The music is way too hot throughout, to the point of actually drowning out the dialogue in some scenes. One example is the opening VO on the "history" of New York. The VO and music sound like they're competing with each other, whereas in the original it was much more natural sounding. The music also drops out for a few seconds when Snake gets the president off the train, and there is music added to the bridge scene (to be fair, that may have been there before and is more prominent because of the general higher volume of the music). Also, the sound effects as Snake destroys the cassette at the very end are almost completely dialed out. Like I said, a weird (and IMO, kind of botched) mix.
The MGM Blu-ray included both the 5.1 remix and the original stereo soundtrack. The Shout Factory disc has a 2-channel track included, but it's a fold-down of the 5.1, rather than the original.
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I only listen to maybe one or two tracks from the Silva version. Not only is it a weird mix, but it also sounds like Howarth added "new" synth layers in some places. (Atlanta Bank Robbery)
I prefer to stick with the original varese album. It would be great to have the film version of the end titles one day.
I completely agree with this. I have combined the two albums (as I did with all three Terminator releases), picking and choosing like a salad bar to mimic the original film soundtrack as closely as possible. This reminds me of what the studios did with The Terminator's non-mono version sound effects/score or the sphere sound effects in the Phantasm DVDs (giving it a rocketship sound...please...just no). I am not an audiophile by any means but I am hyper aware of remixing and overdubbing of new material vs what we actually hear in the films and, sadly, the newer EFNY has it in several places, including of all the needless places...the main title. In the 80's us Tangerine Dream fans called this 'tangetizing'. In order for Tangerine Dream/Edgar Froese to re-release music they did not hold rights to any longer, they did a reasonable amount of overdubbing and remixing of the song to legally release it as their own (noticibly on their 'greatest hits' box set called Tangents). While in some instances it's a neat 'addition' it's really just the music version of George Lucasing a masterpiece. To that I say, no thanks. I'm not sure why Howarth felt he had to remix anything at all but as Ford said, I'm sure he'd happily answer why.
I have an interesting question about a point you brought up.
If say the composer doesn't have the rights to their own material anymore, and they re record the music.
If it was originally done by synthesizer, and they simply replayed all the parts identically using the exact equipment, and did it so it is indistinguishable from the original recording, would that still pass as ok?
I've always wondered why some composers haven't just done that, simply re record their own stuff using the same equipment, and especially if it was in Midi format, it would be easier. Or does it require noticeable additional differences in order to be released?
Technically, they would be doing a 99% copy cover version of their own track!
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I only listen to maybe one or two tracks from the Silva version. Not only is it a weird mix, but it also sounds like Howarth added "new" synth layers in some places. (Atlanta Bank Robbery)
I prefer to stick with the original varese album. It would be great to have the film version of the end titles one day.
I completely agree with this. I have combined the two albums (as I did with all three Terminator releases), picking and choosing like a salad bar to mimic the original film soundtrack as closely as possible. This reminds me of what the studios did with The Terminator's non-mono version sound effects/score or the sphere sound effects in the Phantasm DVDs (giving it a rocketship sound...please...just no). I am not an audiophile by any means but I am hyper aware of remixing and overdubbing of new material vs what we actually hear in the films and, sadly, the newer EFNY has it in several places, including of all the needless places...the main title. In the 80's us Tangerine Dream fans called this 'tangetizing'. In order for Tangerine Dream/Edgar Froese to re-release music they did not hold rights to any longer, they did a reasonable amount of overdubbing and remixing of the song to legally release it as their own (noticibly on their 'greatest hits' box set called Tangents). While in some instances it's a neat 'addition' it's really just the music version of George Lucasing a masterpiece. To that I say, no thanks. I'm not sure why Howarth felt he had to remix anything at all but as Ford said, I'm sure he'd happily answer why.
I have an interesting question about a point you brought up.
If say the composer doesn't have the rights to their own material anymore, and they re record the music.
If it was originally done by synthesizer, and they simply replayed all the parts identically using the exact equipment, and did it so it is indistinguishable from the original recording, would that still pass as ok?
I've always wondered why some composers haven't just done that, simply re record their own stuff using the same equipment, and especially if it was in Midi format, it would be easier. Or does it require noticeable additional differences in order to be released?
Technically, they would be doing a 99% copy cover version of their own track!
This is a LOT of work , especially when you have you record orchestral pieces....and it never sounds exactly the same. Exactly the same is what film score people like.
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I only listen to maybe one or two tracks from the Silva version. Not only is it a weird mix, but it also sounds like Howarth added "new" synth layers in some places. (Atlanta Bank Robbery)
I prefer to stick with the original varese album. It would be great to have the film version of the end titles one day.
I completely agree with this. I have combined the two albums (as I did with all three Terminator releases), picking and choosing like a salad bar to mimic the original film soundtrack as closely as possible. This reminds me of what the studios did with The Terminator's non-mono version sound effects/score or the sphere sound effects in the Phantasm DVDs (giving it a rocketship sound...please...just no). I am not an audiophile by any means but I am hyper aware of remixing and overdubbing of new material vs what we actually hear in the films and, sadly, the newer EFNY has it in several places, including of all the needless places...the main title. In the 80's us Tangerine Dream fans called this 'tangetizing'. In order for Tangerine Dream/Edgar Froese to re-release music they did not hold rights to any longer, they did a reasonable amount of overdubbing and remixing of the song to legally release it as their own (noticibly on their 'greatest hits' box set called Tangents). While in some instances it's a neat 'addition' it's really just the music version of George Lucasing a masterpiece. To that I say, no thanks. I'm not sure why Howarth felt he had to remix anything at all but as Ford said, I'm sure he'd happily answer why.
I have an interesting question about a point you brought up.
If say the composer doesn't have the rights to their own material anymore, and they re record the music.
If it was originally done by synthesizer, and they simply replayed all the parts identically using the exact equipment, and did it so it is indistinguishable from the original recording, would that still pass as ok?
I've always wondered why some composers haven't just done that, simply re record their own stuff using the same equipment, and especially if it was in Midi format, it would be easier. Or does it require noticeable additional differences in order to be released?
Technically, they would be doing a 99% copy cover version of their own track!
This is a LOT of work , especially when you have you record orchestral pieces....and it never sounds exactly the same. Exactly the same is what film score people like.
Yes, but for synthesizer scores, I would have thought it would be much easier to do this.
Since technically a synthesizer sound is a patch saved into the machine,
simply put, composer could load his midi files and replay the same exact sounds.
It depends if they have the same equipment, but I know a lot of composers still have their original equipment and patches for sounds saved.
So technically you would have the exact same sounds replayed using the same equipment.
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So technically you would have the exact same sounds replayed using the same equipment.
A good thought, but analog synths don't work that way, and all this stuff was done on analog synths. To recreate an analog synth sound, you basically need to have the synth set at the exact same settings as it was when you recorded it originally, and there will always be very, very slight variations even if you could accomplish an identical sound, which is pushing it when you are talking about 40 year old instruments. And with a multi-track recording, you multiply that effect over multiple tracks, and then you have to process each track with EQ, reverb, etc. exactly the same way. So it's not going to be perfect.
The two recordings I can think of that exemplify this are Jean Michel Jarre's "new master recording" of Oxygene, done so that he could release it on a new label. To the casual ear it's identical to the first one, but not really. There was also that Harold Faltermeyer release from a few months ago that is even more of what you're talking about. He recreated "Fletch" and "Axel F" on the same equipment. It's close but not exact.
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