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Posted: |
Aug 2, 2016 - 10:17 AM
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By: |
Score-Man-X
(Member)
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... and may be other CD labels !
We all know that STAR TREK / X-FILES / BATMAN etc. soundtracks are some of the best-selling CDs.
With the released BATMAN-TAS-Vol.4 and the announced X-FILES-Vol.3 and of course the several STAR TREK releases to celebrate STAR TREK's 50th anniversary, LA-LA-LAND have again, like all the past years, a solid portion of TV-series-soundtracks in the pipline.
And I had the hope on more big box-sets, like the MISSION IMPOSSIBLE and the LOST IN SPACE releases last year.
There are a lot of soundtracks from the GNP-CRESCENDO catalog, which need a solid expansion.
So I had the hope, there is enough place in the pipline for a additional TV-series-box-set and LA-LA-LAND don't forget the
50th Anniversary of Irwin Allan's THE TIME TUNNEL !
But the current statement from MV, that the MISSION IMPOSSIBLE and LOST IN SPACE releases are a commercial disappointment, led me fear, the Gold and Silver-Age film and TV soundtracks are a dying cornfield.
By the 50th Anniversary of THE TIME TUNNEL this year I had the hope, that this scores are the next from the GNP-CRESCENDO catalog, that get a strong release like I.M. and L.I.S. last year.
I had the hope to see in this year, a 5 or 6-CD-complete set to the 50th anniversary of
THE TIME TUNNEL(TV start at September 9, 1966 - only one day after STAR TREK TOS).
The one-season-series has the following 12 original composed scores(in production order):
- Rendezvous With Yesterday (John Williams)
- End Of The World (Lyn Murray)
- One Way To The Moon (Lyn Murray)
- Revenge Of The Gods (Leith Stevens)
- Secret Weapon (Paul Sawtell)
- The Day The Sky Fell In (Paul Sawtell)
- The Last Patrol (Lyn Murray)
- Crack Of Doom (Robert Drasnin)
- Massacre (Joseph Mullendore)
- Reign Of Terror (Leith Stevens)
- The Death Trap (Robert Drasnin)
- The Death Merchant (George Duning)
And there was of course a lot of library-music, I think mostly Bernard Herrmann !
I have the Varese-BERNARD-HERRMANN-AT-FOX-Box and every CD version of THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL.
But for all fans of the series, it make sence to add all used library music in aTT-complete-Box too;
I think then sure with 6 or 7 CDs.
I am sure, there are many fans of the series and the composers, there are hope and wait a long time on a release of all this music.
But now I personal fear, if now to the 50th anniversary of this series no complete scores release is coming, then it will be comes maybe never !
How old are the most fans of this series today and how many new fans generate such old TV-series without a sequel or remake in TV or cinema ? And how many of this fans are interested today for a soundtrack-release on CD ? It is not STAR TREK(TOS) !
I fear, there is a final time slot for a soundtrack release of such old TV-content and this time slot is now begin to close forever! So I think, many of this 60's soundtracks need a release now(within the next few years) or get it never !
I read here all this depressing informations of bad selling Golden Age soundtracks(contemporary the lack of interrests at the brilliant CDs from La-La-Land) I have no information about the situation on other CD label, like INTRADA etc. Now I fear, that the output of this titles will continuosly sink from year to year. And the day will come, where the message from all company's is: "Sorry people ! But the lack of interrests at this scores from the 50's and 60's, we no longer release this music on CD. It's a commercial suicid !"
Except a few all-time classic scores from prominent composers, it seems the trend is, that the time of the Golden Age music is running out !
How many new soundtrack-collectors(for example: The Hans Zimmer fan-base), are also interested in Golden Age composers, like Steiner, Newman, Tiomkin, Young, Waxman etc. ?
I heard a few weeks ago, at sunday morning, the LA-LA-LAND 2-CD-set of A CERTAIN SMILE from Alfred Newman. And at the evening, I saw the BR of INCEPTION and heard then the CD with Hans Zimmer's score. But with my ultra wide spectrum of soundtrack-interests(all ... composers, styles/instrumentation, film/TV-genres, Gold/Silver/Whatever-Ages, and that worldwide);
I may be a very rare exception in the soundtrack-cummunity.
The same evanescent interest of old 50's and 60's TV-series-scores, like THE TWILIGHT ZONE or THE TIME TUNNEL. I fear on many other old TV-series too. A lot of good TV-series scores may be never get a solid release; here some from my personal wishlist(now more a dream), for future LA-LA-LAND RECORDS releases within the next few years:
(2018?) LAND OF GIANTS 50th-Anniversary-CD-Box(first transmission at 22 September 1968 / 2 seasons, total 51 episodes) = 2 pilot-episode-scores by Williams(used) & Courage(rejected) additional episode-scores: Alexander Courage(1),
Harry Geller(4), Irvin Gertz(1), Richard LaSalle(7), Joseph Mullendore(5),
Paul Sawtell(1), Leith Stevens(5) and Robert Price(1);
total: 27 episode-scores(+ library-music ?) Enough music for a 12-14CD-box.
Not to forget the longest-running Irwin Allen project:
VOYAGES TO THE BOOTEM OF THE SEA - on air from 1964-68 / 4 seasons; total 110 episodes.
A lot of music from Paul Sawtell, Jerry Goldsmith, Alexander Courage, Morton Stevens, Leith Stevens, Hugo Friedhofer,
Lennie Hayton.
I am not sure, how many episodes have an original composed score(+library music?), and how many CDs you need for a complete release ! Is a complete release in one box really possible ?
I mean, V.T.T.B.O.T.S. have not the popularity of STAR TREK. May be, it will be a best-of-collection like the MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE-(6CD-Box with music from 7 seasons); or the V.T.T.B.O.T.S. complete release will split in two CD-boxes. Box 1 contains all music from seasons1&2(2017?) and a year later(2018) Box 2 will contains all music from seasons 3&4.
What do you prefer ?
This is of course a problem of more long-running series, like THE-SEX-MILLION-DOLLAR-MAN (5 seasons
= 99 episodes + 3 TV-movies),
THE INCREDIBLE HULK(5 seasons = 82 episodes + 3 TV-movies).
WONDER WOMAN(3 seasons = 59 episodes + movie pilot) is now announced. Top!
But it will be a essential/best-of compilation, that represented all 3 seasons; like MISSION IMPOSSIBLE.
Also better chances for a complete release have other series with 1-3 seasons,
for example EARTH 2(1994 / 1 season / 21 episodes + pilot) or
BATMAN(1966-68) had 3 seasons with 120 episodes(but only 25 minutes running time).
It is of course ever the same important question, how many episodes of the series have an original composed score and how many library music. Someone here who knows it exactly ?
And not to forget how popular is the series; and finally, how many fans of the series holds interest for a soundtrack-release ?
Here at last a very special suggestion for a IRWIN ALLEN soundtrack project:
The Irwin Allen Desaster-TV-Movie-Soundtrack-Collection:
FlLOOD!(1976), FIRE!(1977), HANGING BY A THREAD!(1979), THE NIGHT THE BRIDGE FELL DOWN(1979/
on air 1983!), and CAVE-IN(1979/on air 1983!); all scores composed by Richard LaSalle.
Enough music for a 2 or 3CD-set ?
An now the essential question: What can we and what can the CD labels do, to release this old scores on CD.
I think we need a little more informations from the company's.
I remember the very fine communication between LA-LA-LAND and us consumers on the STAR TREK TOS release 2012 or this year on the 50th anniversary compilation CD-set. There are ever the two questions: How many CDs/sets the company's can sell and how high are the costs of the production ?
I wish that LA-LA LAND and other company's tell us more detailed, how many CDs or CD-sets of this old stuff they effective sell.
And like the STAR TREK releases, they can ask us via internet, how many people are really interested in this planned or contemplated future soundtrack projects.
The success of every release, may be a question of the limitation. If 1500 copys is to high, it may be a 1000, 750 or 500 copy/set ltd. pressing(with of caurse higher prices), is a commercial success. Some current Spanish, French or Italien soundtrack CDs have a limitation of only 300 copys !
The CD labels invest ago a heap of money for every score project. The mass of this money must come back
quick for the next score project.
Nobody of us costumers want the risk of a commercial suicide of a company like LA-LA-LAND, INTRADA or others.
The keyinformation the CD labels need, is a correct estimation of the economic right limitation.
But on which way is this keyinformation for the companys correct calculable ?
How can we consumers help to find the right limitaion ?
I hope there is somewhere a new way; we must find it together !
Again, we need more informations:
How much is the price of a CD-set like LOST IN SPACE(12CDs/Price:149.98+shipping)
or other CD sets, on a 1000, 750 or 500 copy/set limitation pressing ? The information can we only get
from insiders/the companys.
So tell it us, and we can tell you, if we are willing to pay the higher prices of a lower limitation.
If you ask me in the years before 2012, how much I will pay at most for a complete release of all STAR TREK TOS scores in a ltd. CD-box, then I was really willing to pay $1000.00. This is extremly high; I know.
This is a price, that I was only willing to pay for STAR TREK TOS; not for another STAR TREK series, not for X-FIELES, not for any other TV-series.
If now rational thinking people(they are not STAR TREK TOS fans) on this board argue, that this price is to crazy; then let it me explain in this way:
Spock argue: "This are only a lot of bits and bytes on plastic discs; this has no rational value."
MacCoy replay: NO, that are emotions, and we are humans, they need emotions for a fulfiled life !"
So Spock lose his argumentation, and MacCoy wins, ever and ever again !
It is music - it's emotional; so it is not rational to calculate the real value, to have this music or not.
How much is it worth every soundtrack collector, to have his "holly grail" scores on CD ?
From this point of view, not only the STAR TREK TOS CD-box, every soundtrack release of the past years from LA-LA-LAND or INTRADA or other company's, or a fanclub like FANDERSON, was for me a really cheap release and ever Dollar/GBP/Euro worth!
With their STAR TREK scores releases by GNP-CRESCENDO / VARESE SARABADE / LABEL X, this where for me 25 years ago, very important CD labels.
With the THE PANTASTIC WORLS OF IRWIN ALLEN 6CD-Box(It was too bad, that the TIME TUNNEL CD not contained my favorite episode-score of ON THE WAY TO THE MOON), GNP-CRESCENDO was the greates CD label at that time(1997); for me.
I will never forget the first moment, I held this wonderful CD-box, with the metalic foil cover in my hands and than heard all this fantastic music for the first time seperate from the episodes.
After the time of the STAR TREK TOS release(2012), it seems every soundtrack release is possible and it is only a question of time, that all childhood dreams came true. I beliefe, later generations will it call the Golden Age of soundtrack releasing and collecting!
But every things time is limited and this Golden Age of soundtrack releasing on CD came now to an end.
What will be the future of soundtrack releasing/collecting in this incipient age of digital downloads.
I remember me very clear at the time 20, 25 or 30 years ago. So many current releases where absolutly unthinkable at that time. I don't wont back in this time !
But who can say, what will be in 10 - 15 years.
If the old ways you not take to that place, where you want to be; then left this old ways and search for new ways.
In the last years, there where some unusual projects, there walked on new ways.
The DOCTOR WHO - TARDIS-BOX release from SILVER SCREEN(I am very happy with it);
or the way of KRIZERLAND RECORDS, to collecting money for new soundtrack releases.
It may be not longer acceptable to pay for a Golden/Silver-Age score on CD, the same price, as for
a modern score. If the restoration of an old score need more money, than we must willing to pay higher prices for this CDs.
So here is an concept, that may a way to get this old stuff on CD:
Specific Gold/Silver-Age soundtrack releases on PREPAID-base !
To day a ltd. ed. single CD costs regular $20.00 to $25.00. But if this the only option to get an old stuff on CD, how much more are we fans are willing to pay per CD ? $30, $35, $40, $45 or $50.00 per ltd. ed. CD ?
If I and other fans want to have a release of the 12 TIME TUNNEL scores in a ltd. CD-set; who much will it cost; if it is limited to only 1000, 900, 800, 750, 700, 600 or 500 sets ? The CD labels can tell us their potential projects, and what is for which price possible.
When enough consumers pay the price or specific part of the final price forward within of 6, 12, or more months(enough time for a lot of people to save every month a fixed sum); then it will be released, in the optimal limitation, for the best price.
For example: 500 sets = $200.00 per set / 750 sets = $150.00 per set / or 1000 sets = $100.00 per set
Off course, may be a limitiation of 450, 550, 650, 850 etc. possible too.
I am willing to pay forward $200,00 for a TIME TUNNEL 6 or 7 CD-set .
If I and 651 other cunsumers pay this price forward to a company within 12 months, and the set came with a limtiation of 750; every prepaid-consumer get his set for 150,00USD. The remaining 50,00USD can be send back, or offset with other CDs from the company or shifted to another prepaid soundtrack project.
And the rest of this ltd. ed. sets are going in the free sell with a 10 or 20% surcharge for all consumers,
who not supported the release by prepaid.
A chart with tendential prices for single CDs, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and more CD-sets with a limitation of 1000, 900, 800, 750, 700, 600, 500(I don't trust to ask for 300!) are helpful, to calculate the expected prises on this single CDs and sets of Gold and Silver-Age scores for prepaid releases.
But it is of course also a importent question, if the rightholders(FOX/MGM/UNIVERSAL/WB etc.) are also
willing to accept a stronger limitation !
We can only hope, the rightholders understand the tendential development on the current music market;
and support the CD labels on any better way to market the CDs in this new emerging development.
My plea to all CD labels, give us Gold and Silver-Age soundtrack connoisseurs hope for the next(may be the last) years. I fear really, in ten years there is no longer a solid economic chance for this music on the good old CD.
So again, let us find a way; now or never !
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We canceled a box set of a classic tv series this year and in turn will deliver a 3 disc set. If it sells well another volume will follow.
The days of box sets for La-La Land are pretty much over unless a unique opportunity comes along
MV
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Depressing
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LLL of course, must do what is commercially viable for their business but kind of sad that sets such as Mission Impossible the TV scores sold in unsatisfactory numbers.
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I would pay $200-300, maybe more, for the complete surviving Erich Wolfgang Korngold at Warner Bros.
Yavar
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I would pay $200-300, maybe more, for the complete surviving Erich Wolfgang Korngold at Warner Bros.
Yavar
With all due respect, you may be one of a few. As somebody who has worked on projects at many labels (major mostly) I can tell you that costs suck, fans won't pay over a certain amount. This is a special niche of fans, so there are always hardcore collectors (I am looking at you DMD) willing to step out on everything because they exist to own everything.
Problem is, as Bruce Kimmel called it years ago...this niche has become glutted. New labels are popping up to fill in holes but even they will find out that unless it's a home run, not many of those left as we know, choices and concerns on profitability will make labels, like LLL stated earlier, think twice about spending large sums on extravagant releases. It is getting harder and harder to find that home run that pays for every slower selling release.
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Posted: |
Aug 3, 2016 - 1:55 AM
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By: |
Martin B.
(Member)
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Speaking as someone who has and enjoys the TOS box and several other boxsets from that era, I still only buy what I enjoy. Sorry but Lost in Space was not for me and while some of the music in the Mission Impossible box is great, it's a big outlay for those few tracks.
Anyway I do enjoy the scores from the likes of Zimmer, McCreary, Giacchino as well as having many scores from the likes of Alfred Newman, Herrmann, Waxman so I'd say my musical tastes are quite wide ranging. Good music is good music regardless of who composed it or when. However, no one can help if certain scores just don't do it for them, regardless of how others perceive them.
I think a large problem is just getting people to listen to silver/golden age scores. How many people here listen to the samples for films they've never heard of for instance ?
That said I would jump all over a Twilight Zone set in an instant. I think that's one property which if the rights could be sorted would still be a strong seller as a complete set, but if it were released as a series of smaller sets I'd be fine with that.
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I would pay $200-300, maybe more, for the complete surviving Erich Wolfgang Korngold at Warner Bros.
Yavar
I would pay $20000 for the complete, restored and remastered James Bond Box-Set contains all complete Bond scores 1962-2002.
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Posted: |
Aug 3, 2016 - 3:35 AM
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By: |
The Thing
(Member)
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The last giant box set that I bought was FSM's Ron Jones Star Trek Next Gen collection, and I found that such a chore to get through that it put me off getting any others. Having said that, the LLL offerings didn't interest me in the first place, as I wasn't interested in music from those 60s series.
Whilst there will be many fans who want every cue ever written, I'm quite happy with a tighter representation of the music on, say, a 2-CD set. I'm not going to be familiar with the music to the extent that others will be, so wouldn't have a clue what was missing. A good listening experience over a couple of hours of music is enough to keep me happy. I even struggled with the 4-CD B:TAS sets as I felt it was too much music, and was getting bored with it all. The first 2-CD volume is the only one I listen to, and that is a good enough representation of music from that series as I need.
Looking forward to Wonder Woman, though.
I will also be jumping for joy should anyone ever release a Six Million Dollar Man box-set.
And maybe a longer Hawaii Five-O release, as that 30-minute FSM CD is far too short.
And Street Hawk.
And probably some others that I can't think of right now...
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Posted: |
Aug 3, 2016 - 11:14 AM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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Problem is, as Bruce Kimmel called it years ago...this niche has become glutted.
Yes, and postage costs are high (internationally, especially), and piracy is a problem, and on and on.
But beyond all that, can we really expect there would be a significant market for (to start with Score-Man-X's plea) the background music for a series that ran for only one season, fifty years ago, with exactly one marquee composer (whose score has, in fact, already been released)? And in a multi-disc box that would surely cost at least $100? It seems to me that's an unlikely proposition regardless of gluts, postage, or anything else.
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) - for most of us soundtracks is hobby, so we must think about our families, food etc. And only after that - about our hobbies. I don't think that $150 is "paltry" price, which you can easily spent for hobby (as one-off spending), even in US ))) 
