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 Posted:   Aug 27, 2016 - 8:31 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

The recent (depressing) thread on the shrinking market for so-called silver-age and golden-age scores got me thinking.

Is there much of a market for reissuing some of the older sold-out titles? The money has already been spent on producing the masters. The main remaining costs would involve manufacture of the physical product and licensing fees.

I missed out on so many of these in the early days, in part because I was a little late to the party, and also because the $20 price tags were tough for me.

I bought the reissue of "The Mechanic" because I had missed it the first time. How did the reissue sell?

What do you think?



 
 Posted:   Aug 27, 2016 - 10:42 AM   
 By:   La La Land Records   (Member)

Two of our best sellers so far this year have been reissued titles that have sold out in the past -- X-Files volume 1 and Big Trouble in Little China (yet the quick to sell out, long oop LINK totally tanked). These are the kinds of titles that there is a market for that stretches beyond the average film score collector. The ironic thing is people want stuff that hasn't been released yet those are the titles that have performed poorly for us over the last few years. Titles that are reissued or titles that are expanded over their previous releases tend to sell 2 - 3 times better than titles that have not been out before. What some people refuse to accept is a majority of the so-called Grail releases have been released over the past decade and there's really not much left in terms of Highly coveted titles that score collectors want. Oh, I am quite sure there are those that will argue that there are tons of golden age and Silver age scores to release. While those are some wonderful scores they would not sell nearly as well as those fans would hope. They would barely cover the cost of the actual production and at the end of the day, as I've stated many many times before, this is a business. You can't keep producing product that's just going to break even...you have to make some kind of profit. So, reissuing stuff that has been sold out is a pretty good idea, but it depends on what those titles are. We have done some in the past that performed very well and we have done some that performed poorly. Like with everything, it's a gamble.

MV

 
 Posted:   Aug 27, 2016 - 11:15 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

While those are some wonderful scores they would not sell nearly as well as those fans would hope.

Surely you're not referring to the scores I really want! Those ones would sell great! If not, why would I want them so much?

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 27, 2016 - 12:56 PM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

Do you mean something similar to "Sony Masterworks Broadway" which reissues old Broadway and Broadway-themed recordings from the Sony/BMG library on CDRs via mail-order (and has been, seemingly successfully) for about 10 years now?




You takes your finished CD master copy from the vault, sticks it in the duper with a blank CDR, presses the button, then sticks it in the inkjet printer for a label, then prints your scanned file of the minimal insert, then slaps everything into the jewel case, then sends it out to the person who ordered it online for $20, plus shipping charges.

Cost of making the complete CDR, materials and labor, under $3......cost of CEO, various hangers-on, pretty office facilities on New York's 5th Avenue to keep up appearances, and profit, about $17. smile

Mary Smith, who lives down the street in a low-corporate-taxrate-state, will take the bus down to a small non-descript industrial building each day and sit at her desk with a stack of master CDs, blank CDRs, and jewel cases, and a duper, computer, and inkjet printer and turn out these reissues for $8 an hour for the company every day.




The general soundtrack industry will likely go to CDRs with minimal liner notes, just before it goes to total streaming. We've bought a few of these CDRs already.

(Think Warner Archive DVDr media in the movie realm for your example. They now have 1400+ first-time on disc titles available already from their 6000+ title library with more additions every Tuesday, and are now grinding out reissue DVDrs based on their previously released films which appeared originally on standard DVDs.)

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 27, 2016 - 1:02 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Do you mean something similar to "Sony Masterworks Broadway" which reissues old Broadway and Broadway-themed recordings from the Sony/BMG library on CDRs via mail-order (and has been, seemingly successfully) for about 10 years now?


I am referring to anything that the boutique labels have released that have already sold out. Either do them as CDRs - which I personally don't like, but would buy if that were the only option - or pressed CDs.

 
 Posted:   Aug 27, 2016 - 2:00 PM   
 By:   Stefan Huber   (Member)

The problem is that these titles are property of Sony and require little or no mastering - taking a finished (LP) album master and transferring to digital is by far less effort than compiling a soundtrack album from (undocumented) session masters.

I can imagine, however, that Fox will follow the paths of MGM and Paramount and re-issue their out-of-print titles as downloads. As long as it's CD quality, it's fine with me. Documentation should be included, though. I found download albums without any information on the composers, artists, recording circumstances, etc. pretty much pointless...

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 27, 2016 - 2:21 PM   
 By:   slint   (Member)

But I'd assume there is a difference between sold-out (150$ on Ebay) and sold-out (15$ on amazon)?

Yet, some old vinyls for obscure movies will sometimes sell for 200$ on Ebay. However, it seems that the conclusion is more that there are still 4-5 crazy collectors out there (including me!), and that particular soundtrack might not even sell 250 CDs right away frown

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 27, 2016 - 4:17 PM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

That post by LaLaLand sure makes depressing reading for someone who is starting to get fed up with the endless re-issues and minor expansions that are becoming the norm, over any new or unreleased titles.
It looks like they're not even offsetting the losses of the premiere titles anymore.
I don't have many grails left really, apart from unreleased John Williams scores and more obscure titles by Michael Convertino, Lee Holdridge, Randy Kerber and a few others. Doesn't look like I will be buying much in the future.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 27, 2016 - 5:38 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Do you mean something similar to "Sony Masterworks Broadway" which reissues old Broadway and Broadway-themed recordings from the Sony/BMG library on CDRs via mail-order (and has been, seemingly successfully) for about 10 years now?


Apparently, Sony either has the license to issue these recordings in perpetuity, or has been able to re-acquire such rights relatively cheaply. Other than Varese, I'm not aware of any specialty soundtrack label that has rights to anything in perpetuity. And the film studios don't seem to want to grant rights without some minimum number of guaranteed sales. Hardly conducive to a MOD sales model.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2016 - 1:09 AM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

Do you mean something similar to "Sony Masterworks Broadway" which reissues old Broadway and Broadway-themed recordings from the Sony/BMG library on CDRs via mail-order (and has been, seemingly successfully) for about 10 years now?


Apparently, Sony either has the license to issue these recordings in perpetuity, or has been able to re-acquire such rights relatively cheaply. Other than Varese, I'm not aware of any specialty soundtrack label that has rights to anything in perpetuity. And the film studios don't seem to want to grant rights without some minimum number of guaranteed sales. Hardly conducive to a MOD sales model.



Except when THEY, the studios, are the MOD sellers, themselves. That is exactly what Sony (Columbia)/BMG and Warner Archive are.

Soundtrack "labels" are not the future of soundtracks, in my opinion. At present they are simply producing, assembling, and mastering material owned by the studios---material which will one day be reclaimed by the studio when the license expires, and which will, in effect be all "prepared" and ready for MOD release with very little further effort.

Incidentally Sony(Columbia)/BMG is simply pulling most of this historic stuff from their own vaults, which after nearly 100 years, they've got crammed full of masters of all genres.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2016 - 2:28 AM   
 By:   Rameau   (Member)

Kritzerland have re-released a lot of sold-out older titles, some have sold out, but a lot of others have yet to sell out, titles like: Demetrius & The Gladiators, The Comancheros, The Rains Of Ranchipur, Enemy Below, The Barbarian & The Geisha & One-Eyed Jacks. I'd think if an oop title took 10-15 years to sell out, then a re-print could be a tough sell, I suppose it's all a gamble, as MV said.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2016 - 2:41 AM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Soundtrack "labels" are not the future of soundtracks, in my opinion. At present they are simply producing, assembling, and mastering material owned by the studios---material which will one day be reclaimed by the studio when the license expires, and which will, in effect be all "prepared" and ready for MOD release with very little further effort.


I don't disagree that the studios will be only too glad to reissue material that has already been produced, assembled, and mastered. But who's to "issue" what they want to "re-issue?" Are we doomed to a future of nothing but reissues? No new material?

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2016 - 4:49 AM   
 By:   David Kessler   (Member)

I understand that to reissue an OOP title is often cheaper than to have a new score mastered and put out , but for me that has been around (for ages it seems) I tend to buy less titles nowadays, as there are to much rereleases. The last 1-2 years , I have maybe bought 10 titles, from early years where I bought 25-30 each year.
There are alot of great titles still unreleased, but as MV said, will they sell?
Ofcourse it´s a gamble, but that is buisness, and someone has to do the gamble.
As I understand it, the era that is most profitable, is the 80´s (Am I correct?)

More 80´s for the people smile

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2016 - 7:32 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Taking into account some re-releases sell better, isn't the real problem licensing costs? If it didn't cost the labels an arm and a leg for the license, they could sell less but still make a pretty little profit on obscure titles.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2016 - 8:08 AM   
 By:   MCurry29   (Member)

The French Connection I & II PLEASE!

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2016 - 9:18 AM   
 By:   batman&robin   (Member)

I just can't believe what MV is saying!!

I can't imagine a no sale for never before released titles like for example The Jackal, or Spy Hard, or Bad Company, or From Dusk Till Dawn.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2016 - 9:37 AM   
 By:   kaseykockroach   (Member)

Surely Child's Play 2 would be the hot seller of the year! razz

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2016 - 9:45 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Taking into account some re-releases sell better, isn't the real problem licensing costs? If it didn't cost the labels an arm and a leg for the license, they could sell less but still make a pretty little profit on obscure titles.

There is a lot of expense in creating the master, especially if the master elements require cleanup. My point in starting the thread is that the mastering has already been accomplished and (presumably) paid for with the older, out-of-print titles.

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2016 - 10:36 AM   
 By:   Captain Future 2   (Member)

Isn't it so, that the new master becomes the property of the licenser and that the licensee is often eligible to sell a CD just for a limited time after which remaining stock has to be destroyed? In case of a re-issue the licensee would have to buy a whole new license. Or not?

Volker

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2016 - 10:41 AM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

I bought LLL's recent, Primal Scream release and am really enjoying it but it's kind of depressing to realise that the era of never previously released scores is coming to an end. It's been a great ride.......

 
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