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 Posted:   Sep 20, 2016 - 10:13 PM   
 By:   spiderich   (Member)

These things can do some amazing stuff. Question: is it is feasible to send/use them on other planets or moons? Surely they would speed up exploration as compared to the rovers that have been used up to this point? Why or why not?

Richard G.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2016 - 2:19 AM   
 By:   Jehannum   (Member)

They need a certain atmospheric pressure to fly. Our moon doesn't have that. Maybe somewhere though.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2016 - 2:50 AM   
 By:   Metryq   (Member)

Balloons have already been considered for planetary exploration:
http://mars.nasa.gov/programmissions/missions/missiontypes/balloons/

Balloons are technologically simpler than UAVs, which is always a plus.

As Jehannum pointed out, atmosphere is needed. In the case of Mars, the surface pressure is so extremely rarified that airfoils would have to be immense.

UAVs probably use up a lot more power than ground rovers, too. Keep in mind that photovoltaic panels ("solar panels") lose effectiveness the farther one gets from the Sun. So that's a factor, too. RTGs (radioisotope thermoelectric generators) would be impossible to reconcile with lightweight UAVs.

I'm not sure what sort of navigation is used with ground rovers. Hobby UAVs ("drones") on Earth often rely on GPS for accurate navigation over a wide area. Such a facility would not be available on Mars, although I wouldn't be surprised if a system were installed for future exploration. One or two orbiting spacecraft are probably insufficient to track a fast-moving aircraft.

A UAV would be very limited in the science packages and sensors it could carry. Put simply, an orbiting spacecraft could get much better pictures, topography and other data over a wider area.

And so on. I'm sure there are many other considerations. While drones are a popular DARPA spin-off, they're not the best choice for frontier exploration.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2016 - 8:04 PM   
 By:   spiderich   (Member)

Thanks for the reply.

< Balloons are technologically simpler than UAVs, which is always a plus. >

Interesting. What about miniature blimps/zeppelins? Or some sort of fusion of UAV & balloon?

< As Jehannum pointed out, atmosphere is needed. In the case of Mars, the surface pressure is so extremely rarified that airfoils would have to be immense. >

Darn, I hadn't considered that. I was just thinking of the lower gravity.

< UAVs probably use up a lot more power than ground rovers, too. Keep in mind that photovoltaic panels ("solar panels") lose effectiveness the farther one gets from the Sun. So that's a factor, too. >

What if the UAV had rechargeable batteries that could be recharged from the lander?

< I'm not sure what sort of navigation is used with ground rovers. Hobby UAVs ("drones") on Earth often rely on GPS for accurate navigation over a wide area. Such a facility would not be available on Mars, although I wouldn't be surprised if a system were installed for future exploration. >

Could navigation be done simply by line of sight? i.e. via the lander's own video camera(s)? What about scientists on earth using camera goggles to fly it? Or would the time delay make it too difficult? Or is that irrelevant? Could the lander cameras/sensors combined with the orbiter cameras/sensors assist with the navigation?

< A UAV would be very limited in the science packages and sensors it could carry. Put simply, an orbiting spacecraft could get much better pictures, topography and other data over a wider area. >

I'm thinking of small UAVs: shoebox size, or so. It (or a combination of UAVs) could access areas unavailable to a land rover (or satellite). They could primarily be used for video, or maybe they might be able to extract soil samples and return it to the lander for examination? Plus, the speed with which they could get "to & fro" could save a whole lot of time.

But I'm no scientist. ;-)

Richard G.

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2016 - 3:18 AM   
 By:   Metryq   (Member)

< What about miniature blimps/zeppelins?

I've seen proposals to use manned zeppelins for the exploration of Venus. I'll let others try that first.

< What if the UAV had rechargeable batteries that could be recharged from the lander?

That would limit the region of exploration quite a bit. Hobby UAVs are limited to a number of minutes. And remember that you'd have to make round trips. All of this assumes a UAV would work at all in Mars' near-vacuum it calls an atmosphere. (The one major gaffe in Andy Weir's popular novel THE MARTIAN.)

< What about scientists on earth using camera goggles to fly it? Or would the time delay make it too difficult?

Not a chance. At closest approach Mars is about 5 light-minutes away, farther at all other times. You'd have time enough to lift-off (again, assuming props big enough to do it), and the next response would be that the UAV had auto-landed back at base for lack of power.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 28, 2017 - 10:46 PM   
 By:   spiderich   (Member)

NASA Langley Engineers Propose Mars Flyer Concept:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xjHCHR5_50

NASA developing drones to take to Martian skies:

http://newatlas.com/nasa-drones-mars/48623/

So they are working on this!

Richard G.

 
 Posted:   Mar 28, 2017 - 11:03 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

These things can do some amazing stuff. Question: is it is feasible to send/use them on other planets or moons? Surely they would speed up exploration as compared to the rovers that have been used up to this point? Why or why not?

Richard G.


Technically the rovers are drones. Nothing is completely automated at this point in time. Drones US use for war require an operator just like NASA's rovers.

I see a huge advantage for drone use in space exploration. You could design hundreds of small drones and release them into the atmosphere of planets. A drone could be a one time event, recording information as it descends.

We could also send tiny "hopper" drones to terrestrial planets and cover a lot more information at ground level.

And of course we may develop drones that fly or glide.

 
 Posted:   Mar 28, 2017 - 11:43 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

solium:

Technically the rovers are drones. Nothing is completely automated at this point in time. Drones US use for war require an operator just like NASA's rovers.


Well, "Good news, everybody!" -- just in case you were having plesant dreams about not being bombed yet or starving after an EMP strike:

The Pentagon is developing autonomous mini swarm drones.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a24675/pentagon-autonomous-swarming-drones/

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2017 - 12:41 AM   
 By:   Disco Stu   (Member)

These things can do some amazing stuff. Question: is it is feasible to send/use them on other planets or moons? Surely they would speed up exploration as compared to the rovers that have been used up to this point? Why or why not?

Richard G.


Make it profitable for the weapons companies, tell them there are Russians of Muslims on the moon, and see how fast there will be drones over there. That craterscape needs updating.

D.S.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2017 - 4:38 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

< As Jehannum pointed out, atmosphere is needed. In the case of Mars, the surface pressure is so extremely rarified that airfoils would have to be immense. >

Darn, I hadn't considered that. I was just thinking of the lower gravity.


Here's a little lesson in the basics.

 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2017 - 7:21 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

These things can do some amazing stuff. Question: is it is feasible to send/use them on other planets or moons? Surely they would speed up exploration as compared to the rovers that have been used up to this point? Why or why not?

Richard G.


Make it profitable for the weapons companies, tell them there are Russians of Muslims on the moon, and see how fast there will be drones over there. That craterscape needs updating.

D.S.


Imagine what NASA could've done with seven trillion dollars.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2017 - 8:17 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

These things can do some amazing stuff. Question: is it is feasible to send/use them on other planets or moons? Surely they would speed up exploration as compared to the rovers that have been used up to this point? Why or why not?

Richard G.


Make it profitable for the weapons companies, tell them there are Russians of Muslims on the moon, and see how fast there will be drones over there. That craterscape needs updating.

D.S.


Imagine what NASA could've done with seven trillion dollars.


Build a better logo? Improve their orange drink, Tang 2.0? Make a space elevator? What, what?

 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2017 - 9:51 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

These things can do some amazing stuff. Question: is it is feasible to send/use them on other planets or moons? Surely they would speed up exploration as compared to the rovers that have been used up to this point? Why or why not?

Richard G.


Make it profitable for the weapons companies, tell them there are Russians of Muslims on the moon, and see how fast there will be drones over there. That craterscape needs updating.

D.S.


Imagine what NASA could've done with seven trillion dollars.


Build a better logo? Improve their orange drink, Tang 2.0? Make a space elevator? What, what?


I personally love the old "meatball" logo and glad they brought it back when John Glenn made his first Space Shuttle flight. Tang was delicious. smile

 
 
 Posted:   May 19, 2018 - 7:45 PM   
 By:   spiderich   (Member)

NASA Mars Helicopter Technology Demonstration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOMQOqKRWjU

"The Mars Helicopter is a technology demonstration that will travel to the Red Planet with the Mars 2020 rover. It will attempt controlled flight in Mars' thin atmosphere, which may enable more ambitious missions in the future".

Cool!

Richard G.

 
 Posted:   May 20, 2018 - 8:32 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

NASA Mars Helicopter Technology Demonstration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOMQOqKRWjU

"The Mars Helicopter is a technology demonstration that will travel to the Red Planet with the Mars 2020 rover. It will attempt controlled flight in Mars' thin atmosphere, which may enable more ambitious missions in the future".

Cool!

Richard G.


It's about time.

 
 Posted:   May 20, 2018 - 8:47 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

At 3,000 rpm, won't the electric motors burn out before long? And won't the contra-rotation mechanism be under a huge mechanical load? It will need a sizeable AI and self-diagnosis software suite to extend longevity, not to mention an extremely accurate 'point and shoot' capability so that the two on-board cameras can register what they're seeing.

When I look back on all the projects that have become reality over the course of my own lifetime, the total man hour input is truly staggering.

 
 Posted:   May 20, 2018 - 9:04 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

At 3,000 rpm, won't the electric motors burn out before long? And won't the contra-rotation mechanism be under a huge mechanical load? It will need a sizeable AI and self-diagnosis software suite to extend longevity, not to mention an extremely accurate 'point and shoot' capability so that the two on-board cameras can register what they're seeing.

When I look back on all the projects that have become reality over the course of my own lifetime, the total man hour input is truly staggering.


Keep in mind this is an "experimental" device. The mission is to see if the technology can work on Mars foremost. Second do any surveillance possible. I think someone on YT made a good point about it being so light weight whats to stop it from just toppling over on the ground and becoming useless?

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 26, 2021 - 1:31 PM   
 By:   ones66   (Member)

It's not possible on the moon, but if we imagine that the drone have been delivered with a rocket to Mars, theoretically, it should be flying, because the most recent NASA experiments tested with a mini helicopter.

 
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