Maurice Thiriet, a composer of real melodic and dramatic gifts, shut out for both film scores and concert works (the Boulez imperium probably accounts for the latter). Try his Herrmanneseque score for Yves Allegret's Une Si Jolie Petite Plage (a great, too-little-known film) and his ballet score Psyche on Youtube
I would imagine it's almost impossible now. You just can't recoup costs if you only sell 400 copies.
This certainly depends on how expensive the licensing costs for the CD project are and whom you have to deal with. If the amount of expenses is not too high, you can certainly break even if you only sell 300 copies. Just look at the Morricone reissues GDM in Italy does which are only limited to 300 copies. It is quite certainly no big problem for them to recoup costs or to even make some profit on these CDs as the scores are in most cases owned by themselves or from the RCA catalogue which is nowadays also managed by them.
I don't think anybody could ever argue that profit results when earnings exceed costs. But it also seems fairly apparent that even if you sell out 300 copies, the few thousand dollars that result can barely cover the cost of pressing, printing, mastering, and overhead, even if the licenses are free (as most are not).
Of course, some labels do things for reasons other than profit. Some are willing (as the folks at Quartet explicitly stated on this board about their "RoGoPaG" release) to issue a score they like at no profit, counting on their larger releases to keep them afloat. Great. Others make money in other ways, through separate downloads (if they own those rights) or, in the case of new recordings, by owning the recordings that they can then license out for other uses. Good for them. I've even been told that at least one label (I shall not say which) expects certain releases will lose money, which they use to offset profits for tax purposes. More power to them!
But none of that makes 300-copy runs any sort of conventional business model for a label that's hoping to pay its employees and keep the lights on, especially if (as is usual) the studio expects to be paid for their product and their time.
My only point, then, is I don't think it's fair to say "If GDM can do it, why won't any label release my favorite unpopular score, too?"
I don't think anybody could ever argue that profit results when earnings exceed costs. But it also seems fairly apparent that even if you sell out 300 copies, the few thousand dollars that result can barely cover the cost of pressing, printing, mastering, and overhead, even if the licenses are free (as most are not).
Of course, some labels do things for reasons other than profit. Some are willing (as the folks at Quartet explicitly stated on this board about their "RoGoPaG" release) to issue a score they like at no profit, counting on their larger releases to keep them afloat. Great. But none of that makes 300-copy runs any sort of conventional business model for a label that's hoping to pay its employees and keep the lights on, especially if (as is usual) the studio expects to be paid for their product and their time. My only point, then, is I don't think it's fair to say "If GDM can do it, why won't any label release my favorite unpopular score, too?"
Sorry, SchiffyM, but I think you are confusing some things here and are also partly misinterpreting what I have written. Where for example did I ever write that "if GDM can do it, why won´t any label release my favorite unpopular score?" That was not the point at all. My point on the other hand was to say that they can still do their Morricone CD reissues with 300 copies (besides doing Morricone on vinyl which is another story) and earn a profit because 1) the titles in most cases belong to them and 2) because nothing much has to be done besides just reprinting an older CD which they already had issued some years ago. So there are no huge costs involved in releasing something like this. And this is only possible because GDM is mostly the owner. Apparently, you have totally forgotten that the same label more than two years ago completely cancelled their series - also limited to 300 copies! - with more unpopular scores from the 60s/70s by many other Italian composers from the old RCA catalogue (and also their GDM/Legend series was stopped). And why did this happen? Because they didn´t even sell 300 copies of such titles and therefore it yielded no profit for them anymore. It is totally clear: If you want to make any business in the current soundtrack market it is nonsense to release such scores anymore. This shows you that only with those Morricone reissues GDM can still make at least some kind of profit even when limiting them to 300 copies. Otherwise they wouldn´t produce these CDs nowadays. You also write above that the Quartet folks had talked about their label policy by releasing something like ROGOPAG with only 300 copies. Nobody of the Quartet folks had said anything about this in that thread. And it was me who had made that explanation because from my own long experience with smaller labels like Alhambra and Saimel I know how things work when licensing such titles for example from Italian music publishers like Sugar. Just read that thread again. You also seem to forget that there is a big difference between larger US labels and a few of the smaller labels here in Europe: Whereas for the ones releasing soundtracks is a business model and they want to make a living out of it besides even paying their employees, for a few other individuals it is pure passion and more or less a kind of expensive "hobby" besides their main job so that they pay a lot of money out of their own pockets just for releasing some scores which they love to do without complaining at all in the end when sometimes they lose quite a lot of money - so for them it is not about profit and often they are glad if 300 copies of one CD can be sold at all to break even which is often not even the case. I hope it is now more clear what I meant.
Michel Michelet (Love this guy, and nothing at all available) Siren of Atlantis (great!), Impact, The Man on the Eiffel Tower, M ('51 great!), Fritz Lang’s Indian Epic (The Tiger of Eschnapur and The Indian Tomb) both great!, Captain Sindbad (great as well!)
I've only seen Man on the Eiffel Tower and the two Fritz Lang Indian epics but based on those, Michel Michelet does seem to have been a very talented composer. Soundtrack Collector also lists Una Signore per Bene (1964) in his filmography for which a CAM LP is listed but I can find no trace of this film title and it's not listed in any other Michelet filmographies I've seen.
There's an interesting article here about the UCLA restoration of Man on the Eiffel Tower; a fascinating but flawed film, especially due to its choppy editing: http://themanontheeiffeltower.com/
I suspect that some of the releases at 300 units are simply a marketing ploy to move as many as they can. I know of at least one occasion where a title was limited to 500 units and a specialty store claims to have ordered at least over a thousand units from the record company during the course of a year. That's all fine and dandy as long as the record company is reporting the sales accurately to the licensor and publisher but they should be a little more forthcoming with their customers as to unit count. Selling a little more than specified is par for the course, but double or triple is just plain false marketing.
Sorry, SchiffyM, but I think you are confusing some things here and are also partly misinterpreting what I have written.
Apologies, Stefan. I was guilty of responding to a number of posts over the past few months in a post specifically quoting your own. That was sloppy of me.
I suspect that some of the releases at 300 units are simply a marketing ploy to move as many as they can. Selling a little more than specified is par for the course, but double or triple is just plain false marketing.
Maybe that could be true for a popular Morricone or Delerue title which may probably sell even more than the stated 500 copies. But lets take a title like Quartet´s ROGOPAG. I don´t think that 300 copies is only a marketing ploy for such a score. There is just no larger sales potential on the soundtrack market for such an unknown older European score nowadays. Where should more than 300 people come from nowadays who will buy this CD? I can also assure you that if at Alhambra and Saimel we limit our CDs to 300 or 400 copies it is not just a marketing ploy, but because of the sales potential of the titles we release. Our next Lavagnino title on Alhambra for example which will be released in just a few weeks will also be limited to only 300 copies - and no more copies than those will be pressed or sold because we know in advance that 300 copies will be more than enough for such a totally unknown Italian score from 1961.
Apologies, Stefan. I was guilty of responding to a number of posts over the past few months in a post specifically quoting your own. That was sloppy of me.
That´s no problem at all, SchiffyM. Apologies accepted.
1. Mike Post & Pete Carpenter Despite there are some Soundtrack-Albums available (The A-Team, compilations of famous theme tunes), it is far too little considering the large amount of TV-scores they've wrote for some of the most famous Television-shows (Rockford, Magnum, A-Team, Hardcastle & McCormick, Riptide, Hunter, Quantum Leap). Besides all albums are re-recordings (very good indeed) but no originals. A 6 - 8 CD compilation-set like LLL's Mission: Impossible Set would be nice.
2. Sylvester Levay Especially the score for the Airwolf pilot movie is great. A perfect mix between synthesizer and orchestra music. A 2 - CD-set would be enough for me (pilot score + the best of seasons 1, 2 & 3). Levay would be willing to help whoever plans to release such a set, I asked him a year ago, but it seems that he has absolutely no rights on his music. And according to Mark Cairns the tapes are in very bad condition. Time presses, so LA-LA LAND ... it's your turn!
"WOULD BE NICE!"-list
1. Joel Goldsmith I am happy about the 5 Stargate-albums with his great scores, but it could be more!
2. John E. Davis He composed very interesting music for the 1988 new Mission: Impossible TV-series. There are great pieces on the "Mission: Impossible - Then and Now"-album, but it could be more too.
3. Ron Jones I have a lot of music from him, but unfortunately "Duck Tales" is not amongst them.
Michel Michelet (Love this guy, and nothing at all available) Soundtrack Collector also lists Una Signore per Bene (1964) in his filmography for which a CAM LP is listed but I can find no trace of this film title and it's not listed in any other Michelet filmographies I've seen.
I have heard that LP a long time ago. It is a very strange jazzy score, completely different from the Michelet scores you mentioned. The title is no longer in the Sugar/CAM list nowadays so nothing more than the LP will ever be available from this score. The film is apparently based on the Guy de Maupassant noveletta "La Maison Tellier" which was also the source for an episode in Max Ophüls´1951 movie LE PLAISIR. UN AFFARE TRANQUILLO (or with the alternative title UNA SIGNORA PER BENE) is a totally obscure movie which in 1964 apparently had big problems with the Italian censorship and then was immediately withdrawn from Italian cinemas. The IMDB lists the film under the French title UN COMMERCE TRANQUILLE: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1123998/?ref_=nm_flmg_com_3
There are just TOO MANY underrepresented composers, i have in mind, so here just FOUR:
ARTHUR MORTON (who not only arranged a lot of Goldsmith scores but also compsed many great (small), scores himself mostly for television series (The Waltons and many other shows and TV- Movies from the 60`s 70`s ).
GERALD FRIED (who did such wonderfull scores like ONE POTATO TWO POTATO, WHATS HAPPENT TO AUNT ALICE, GRISSOM GANG, KILLING OF SISTER GEORGE, THE BABY, VIGILANT FORCE and not c forget ROOTS and MANY, MANY more TV-Scores)
BASIL KIRCHIN (best know for his Phibes-score, he did in fact much more music for films, none of them ever released in any form)
FRED KARLIN (some of his best scores were released as LP like BABY MAKER, STERILE CUCKOO, UP DOWN STAIRCASE, sadly none of them were released as CD)
And there's the case of Harry Sukman, whose score for "A Thunder Of Drums" was included on the F.S.M. Ominous set, and of course, Intrada put out his great score for the miniseries "Salem's Lot". i was disappointed that F.S.M. never put out an expanded version of "Around The World Under The Sea" as part of their Silver Age Series, since it was an M.G.M. film.
1. Mike Post & Pete Carpenter Despite there are some Soundtrack-Albums available (The A-Team, compilations of famous theme tunes), it is far too little considering the large amount of TV-scores they've wrote for some of the most famous Television-shows (Rockford, Magnum, A-Team, Hardcastle & McCormick, Riptide, Hunter, Quantum Leap). Besides all albums are re-recordings (very good indeed) but no originals. A 6 - 8 CD compilation-set like LLL's Mission: Impossible Set would be nice.
2. Sylvester Levay Especially the score for the Airwolf pilot movie is great. A perfect mix between synthesizer and orchestra music. A 2 - CD-set would be enough for me (pilot score + the best of seasons 1, 2 & 3). Levay would be willing to help whoever plans to release such a set, I asked him a year ago, but it seems that he has absolutely no rights on his music. And according to Mark Cairns the tapes are in very bad condition. Time presses, so LA-LA LAND ... it's your turn!
"WOULD BE NICE!"-list
1. Joel Goldsmith I am happy about the 5 Stargate-albums with his great scores, but it could be more!
2. John E. Davis He composed very interesting music for the 1988 new Mission: Impossible TV-series. There are great pieces on the "Mission: Impossible - Then and Now"-album, but it could be more too.
3. Ron Jones I have a lot of music from him, but unfortunately "Duck Tales" is not amongst them.
4. Morton Stevens Please more Hawaii 5-0 music!
And also include a compilation of Stevens' other themes, like both arrangements of "The C.B.S. Thursday Night Movie" (the one that was used from '65-71 and the one from '71-76, plue the one he arranged for "The New C.B.S. Tuesday Night Movies".
GERALD FRIED (who did such wonderfull scores like ONE POTATO TWO POTATO, WHATS HAPPENT TO AUNT ALICE, GRISSOM GANG, KILLING OF SISTER GEORGE, THE BABY, VIGILANT FORCE...ROOTS and MANY, MANY more TV-Scores)
Gerald Fried's masterpiece "Collision of the Planets," the second-greatest score ever composed in the history of film and television, is available on the Lost in Space box set.
And don't forget his exotica masterpiece Orienta, released under the name the Markko Polo Adventurers, containing one of the greatest ever exotica tracks, Vernon Duke's "Rain in Rangoon."
And according to Mark Cairns the tapes are in very bad condition. Time presses, so LA-LA LAND ... it's your turn!
