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 Posted:   May 19, 2017 - 4:16 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Do any of you Herrmann experts know if any of this music was used in the Twilight Zone?

 
 
 Posted:   May 19, 2017 - 4:39 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Technically the CD release is called BERNARD HERRMANN: THE CBS YEARS Vol #1 (The Westerns).
I would have suggested searching the track names from the CD on the Twilight Zone site below (the search engine actually works) except that the names are not very distinctive ("prelude", etc).
http://twilightzonewor.fr.yuku.com/topic/4163/Musical-Cues#.WR9zHVKazaQ

 
 
 Posted:   May 19, 2017 - 6:39 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Technically the CD release is called BERNARD HERRMANN: THE CBS YEARS Vol #1 (The Westerns).
I would have suggested searching the track names from the CD on the Twilight Zone site below (the search engine actually works) except that the names are not very distinctive ("prelude", etc).
http://twilightzonewor.fr.yuku.com/topic/4163/Musical-Cues#.WR9zHVKazaQ


Thanks. I was speaking generically about the music that Herrmann did for CBS westerns. I guess that they all wound up in the library, so they could have shown up in TZ episodes, right?

 
 Posted:   May 19, 2017 - 6:52 PM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)

I'm reasonably sure I heard the track "The Ambush" on The Twilight Zone. I definitely heard it on The Fugitive.

His music on the second volume of the CBS Years series showcases a score he wrote for the radio drama "Brave New World." That was used on TZ a few times. "Third from the Sun" most strongly.

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 6:59 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Technically the CD release is called BERNARD HERRMANN: THE CBS YEARS Vol #1 (The Westerns).
I would have suggested searching the track names from the CD on the Twilight Zone site below (the search engine actually works) except that the names are not very distinctive ("prelude", etc).
http://twilightzonewor.fr.yuku.com/topic/4163/Musical-Cues#.WR9zHVKazaQ


Thanks. I was speaking generically about the music that Herrmann did for CBS westerns. I guess that they all wound up in the library, so they could have shown up in TZ episodes, right?


I assume you just want a simple "yes or no" answer since you are being vague about the music, and it would be a huge research project to answer your question in detail. It seems probable, but maybe Jim Doherty or Ron B knows for certain. Or if you can move out of your FSM comfort zone, email the guys at the site above. Bill Wrobel would know but I dont know if he visits FSM. He mentions several series that had tracked in music, but not necessarily which came from which, in his Herrmann TV music treatise:
http://www.filmscorerundowns.net/herrmann/bh_tvworks.pdf

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 7:37 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I assume you just want a simple "yes or no" answer since you are being vague about the music, and it would be a huge research project to answer your question in detail. It seems probable, but maybe Jim Doherty or Ron B knows for certain. Or if you can move out of your FSM comfort zone, email the guys at the site above. Bill Wrobel would know but I dont know if he visits FSM. He mentions several series that had tracked in music, but not necessarily which came from which, in his Herrmann TV music treatise:
http://www.filmscorerundowns.net/herrmann/bh_tvworks.pdf


Well, many people here could provide a simple "yes or no" answer if you asked if any Herrmann music was used in "Lost in Space." For all I know, there may have been obvious cues that popped up in iconic TZ moments, just as 12-Mile Reef music was used for the jet pack scenes in LIS.

Your response would suggest that there is no obvious answer.

As for the Herrmann board, it is a graveyard.

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 8:48 AM   
 By:   Roy Donga   (Member)

Yes, Western Suite, Western Saga and Have Gun Will Travel were used in dozens of episodes.
Courtesy of Reba Wissner book available on Amazon, highly recommended!

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 8:49 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

If you visit the first site above and typed in "western" you'd find cues from "Western Suite" and Western Saga" had been used in 22 TWZ episodes. I dont know if Herrmann originally wrote those for a western TV series (as opposed to some other genre or even radio); if so, then that would answer your question ("yes"). Just googling, you can find Wrobel's notes at the Herrmann society site which mentions a cue from HGWT ("Have Gun Will Travel") used in TWZ. Looks like about 27 TWZ episodes re-used cues from that show.
http://www.bernardherrmann.org/articles/misc-havegunwilltravel/6/

Edit: Roy and I posted essentially the same info simultaneously. Reba consulted with the guys at the site above and with Bill Wrobel for her book.

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 1:59 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

I have virtually his entire TZ output stored in my head and it's been there a long, LONG time. Am I correct that the issue is did any of Herrmann's original music for TZ track its way into the westerns? Because Herrmann did nothing but original music for TZ. So the answer is no if it's the other way around. Can not believe anything he wrote for the westerns found its way into his TZ scores. Stock cues, however, may have been inserted into non-Herrmann eps.

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 2:31 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

I have virtually his entire TZ output stored in my head and it's been there a long, LONG time. Am I correct that the issue is did any of Herrmann's original music for TZ track its way into the westerns? Because Herrmann did nothing but original music for TZ. So the answer is no if it's the other way around. Can not believe anything he wrote for the westerns found its way into his TZ scores. Stock cues, however, may have been inserted into non-Herrmann eps.

All Onya asked was if any Herrmann western music was used in TWZ (not "used in Herrmann's original scoring for TWZ"). As for WHY he wants to know, he never had the common courtesy to mention it. Here we are, wracking our brains, but to what end? Is he on some online "Who wants to be a millionaire" game show and trying to get an answer to win the jackpot??? Where's our piece of the action?

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 2:38 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

All Onya asked was if any Herrmann western music was used in TWZ (not "used in Herrmann's original scoring for TWZ"). As for WHY he wants to know, he never had the common courtesy to mention it.

I was curious if - just as there is particularly memorable use of Herrmann CBS library music used in "Lost in Space" - if there was similarly any particularly memorable use of Herrmann CBS library music used in Twilight Zone. Apparently there is not.

That is all. I did not realize that I was being discourteous for not supplying a reason for my question, but whatevs.

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 2:51 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Was there Herrmann CBS library music used in the LIS series? Fox produced the LIS pilot with Herrmann's music from films Day The Earth Stood Still and Beneath The Twelve Mile Reef. I dont think that music is considered part of the CBS library.

Btw, I was exaggerating about the discourtesy, but you can see how it would be nice for us to know the "why" for a couple reasons (our own curiosity, and narrows down the question).

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 2:57 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Was there Herrmann CBS library music used in the LIS series? Fox produced the LIS pilot with Herrmann's music from films Day The Earth Stood Still and Beneath The Twelve Mile Reef. I dont think that music is considered part of the CBS library.

The westerns would have ended up in the CBS library, so, again, I was curious if there was any particularly memorable use of this music in TZ, just as you would need the jet pack and trial music if you wanted a complete Lost in Space set.

The answer appears to be "no" from what I am seeing.

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 3:45 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

I think it's apples and oranges. Scores from distinctive films will be better known than a random western TV episode. Most people (here included) dont know the western TV shows, so of course any music from them wont be obvious except to diehard fans (although "obvious" re-used music wasnt in the original question). Again, if you search the site above, watch the episodes, you might find some awesome Herrmann cues which you associate with TWZ that are from some other series. Post a couple clips to impress us.

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 3:57 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I think it's apples and oranges. Scores from distinctive films will be better known than a random TV episode. The diehard fans who know his Western music would say "yes," just as people who know the two Fox films would say "yes" as to their inclusion in LIS. But most people wont know they're hearing a re-used cue or recognize its source. Again, if you search the site above, watch the episodes, you might find some awesome Herrmann cues which you associate with TWZ that are from some other series.

Except that I had no idea who Bernard Herrmann was, nor had I seen "The Day the Earth Stood Still" or "12-Mile Reef," when I first saw "Lost in Space."

But if you played me "Klaatu" or whatever that Reef track is called, I would have instantly recognized both as "Lost in Space" music.

So I would argue that it has more to do with the quality of the music and distinctiveness of the scene in question than it does an intellectual knowledge of the music's source.

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 4:10 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

But if you played me "Klaatu" or whatever that Reef track is called, I would have instantly recognized both as "Lost in Space" music.

I edited my response above, but my advice remains the same. Correlate or reverse engineer the scoring - find the western cues in the episodes, and maybe there are some that you would have only identified with TWZ. Of course not every cue Herrmann wrote will be as iconic or distinctive as the two Fox film cues, but there's probably some gems in there. Again, I think the issue is the western TV sources arent as widely known as the Fox films, and that they're written for TV, not feature films. As Scott wrote earlier, some of Herrmann's iconic TWZ music originated in a radio score.

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 4:44 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I edited my response above, but my advice remains the same. Correlate or reverse engineer the scoring - find the western cues in the episodes, and maybe there are some that you would have only identified with TWZ. Of course not every cue Herrmann wrote will be as iconic or distinctive as the two Fox film cues, but there's probably some gems in there. Again, I think the issue is the western TV sources arent as widely known as the Fox films, and that they're written for TV, not feature films. As Scott wrote earlier, some of Herrmann's iconic TWZ music originated in a radio score.

Part of what I am getting at is the nature of TV music - or, more specifically, music used on TV shows - and our associations with this music if we hear it at an impressionable age.

As a kid, I watched "Twilight Zone," "Star Trek," and "Lost in Space" over and over through the years. Certain pieces of music made a real impression on me, especially if it got used over and over again in the series. For example, music from "Where is Everybody," the Herrmann TZ pilot, was used a fair amount throughout the run of the series. Many years later, when I picked up "The Best of Twilight Zone" on CD, I recognized this music instantly. Same thing with Jerry Goldmith's bongo-driven nervous jazz TZ music. I eventually picked up the 4-CD set and also the 2-disc Herrmann TZ set conducted by McNeely. It seems that most or all of the TZ music that really made an impression on me is on one or both of those sets.

On the other hand, when I got "Lost in Space" volume 1, which included Williams' music for the first three or whatever episodes, I specifically remember waiting for the jet pack music. I went back through the disc looking for it a second time, but it wasn't there. It was some time later when I discovered this was Herrmann "12-Mile Reef" music. In what I've read on this site over the years, I am not the only one who noticed this music.

So I asked about the Herrmann's CBS westerns to see if any of this music was used in TZ, and if anyone had jet-pack-like associations with any particular cues.

I probably should have titled the thread "Memorable Library Music Used in Twilight Zone."

 
 
 Posted:   May 20, 2017 - 6:38 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

The westerns would have ended up in the CBS library, so, again, I was curious if there was any particularly memorable use of this music in TZ, just as you would need the jet pack and trial music if you wanted a complete Lost in Space set.

The answer appears to be "no" from what I am seeing.


Ah, thank you for clearing it up in my head. Again, it is possible some of it was included as non-credited stock cues. Same for F. Steiner's, among others. Wish all stock cues were credited so we'd all know. One of my favorite stockers underscored Benteen's reminiscences of Earth in On Thursday We Leave For Home.

 
 
 Posted:   May 21, 2017 - 3:14 AM   
 By:   Roy Donga   (Member)

Was there Herrmann CBS library music used in the LIS series? Fox produced the LIS pilot with Herrmann's music from films Day The Earth Stood Still and Beneath The Twelve Mile Reef. I dont think that music is considered part of the CBS library.

The westerns would have ended up in the CBS library, so, again, I was curious if there was any particularly memorable use of this music in TZ, just as you would need the jet pack and trial music if you wanted a complete Lost in Space set.

The answer appears to be "no" from what I am seeing.


My answer was Yes and check out the book!

 
 
 Posted:   May 21, 2017 - 6:52 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

My answer was Yes and check out the book!

"Yes" as in the music was used, or "yes" as in the music was jet pack worthy?

 
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