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There's little doubt that 'Rio Conchos' is one of Goldsmith's best Western scores, but I'm using it here as an example of the futility and artificiality of this running debate on 'close-miking versus open space recording' preferences.
Both the Intrada re-recording (with the LSO world class) and the OST are perfect.
The OST has all the dryness of the desert settings, whilst the re-recording has the echo of the canyons and SUCH sensuality. There need be no competition, but I'm sure there's polarising, with most folk here siding with dry.
So who prefers what, and why, and has your preference to do with more than mere personal fetish?
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I cherish all three releases I own.
The Intrada is amazingly performed and recorded, the best Goldsmith re-recording of all time. It also has the benefit of including The Artist Who Did Not Want to Paint in an even more amazing performance....and that is my single favorite Goldsmith composition of all time.
The Kritzerland (Michael Mattesino-restored) release of the original tracks sounds incredible, far superior to the FSM. The dryness of the recording is great and I honesty think the score flows much better in complete form so that is one huge advantage over the LSO recording which is noticeably truncated and suffers from inferior flow in the second half.
The FSM is a must-own however, for the liner notes far superior to either of the other two releases.
Yavar
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Posted: |
Sep 16, 2017 - 2:19 PM
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By: |
Rameau
(Member)
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I bought the Intrada when it first came out many years ago, great recording, but then the FSM original score was released & I preferred that, even although most of it was mono, & then of course came the Kritzerland, original score in a beautiful remastering & nearly all in stereo (even the few mono tracks sound great), so that's the only version I listen to now, in fact I can't find the Intrada CD, but I'm not that bothered.
For me, sixties Goldsmith is the best Goldsmith.
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Thanks for your thoughts gents.
Yes, it's a monothematic sort of score, but there's great art I think in that simplicity too. His orchestral textures are fairly exquisite. I don't know if the film was thought of at the time as anything more than a routine adventure, though it seems to be receiving a sort of revisionist upgrading to an early proto-antihero Western, though there were plenty such at the time. I think the score gives it clout. With films like 'Wild Rovers' etc., maybe Goldsmith used a bigger thematic palette because he saw them as more complex stories. This is a Mr. Hobgood score for sure.
It's good to note that the 'close-mic or nothing' mantra isn't as universal as it looks sometimes here on FSM. Each of the recordings has its own charm and it highlights how clarity and atmosphere aren't always interchangeable terms.
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So who prefers what, and why, and has your preference to do with more than mere personal fetish?
I actually like close miking with reverb.
I prefer close miking to the Decca Tree, because it captures much more detail.
But dry recordings border on unlistenable to me. Orchestras evolved in large concert halls, and they are meant to be heard in the spacious acoustics of such venues (or at least with electronic or plate techniques which approximate the sound of those spaces).
I cannot listen to Inchon, The Dove, or the expanded releases of Jaws and Diamonds Are Forever (sorry Lukas!) as they are presented. I had to add reverb in order to enjoy them (and I am convinced the lack of reverb on original album mix of The Dove was a mistake).
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So who prefers what, and why, and has your preference to do with more than mere personal fetish?
I actually like close miking with reverb.
I prefer close miking to the Decca Tree, because it captures much more detail.
But dry recordings border on unlistenable to me. Orchestras evolved in large concert halls, and they are meant to be heard in the spacious acoustics of such venues (or at least with electronic or plate techniques which approximate the sound of those spaces).
I cannot listen to Inchon, The Dove, or the expanded releases of Jaws and Diamonds Are Forever (sorry Lukas!) as they are presented. I had to add reverb in order to enjoy them (and I am convinced the lack of reverb on original album mix of The Dove was a mistake).
People simply do not understand reverb and natural acoustics. When recording specifically for a film, if it was close miked, which most were, they purposely kept it dry so the film mixers had play and could add what they needed later. Dry makes an orchestra of forty sound like twenty or less. Instruments need air, it's that simple. I don't like the washy concert hall vibe with a couple of mics - no detail at all. As everyone knows, the re-recording of Taras Bulba was done in a very dry space and no verb was added, which resulted in an LP and later CD that was harsh, small, and ugly as sin. When I decided to reissue it, the sole purpose was I finally had a score where I could show people that adding natural reverb to a dry recording is a good and proper thing, not a bad thing. And when people heard the difference, they finally could hear it for themselves.
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If you record dry, you can add reverb, but not the other way round.
A great many releases of old archive scores add some small amount of reverb, and it usually is very effective. There's also a teeny bit of reverb added to most mono releases, and it makes a big difference, but I think a lot of people pretend they're not hearing it, or don't realise it's there and improving what they hear.
Many mono issues also have a miniscule stereo spread furtively added that is never spotted. Some people hate fake stereo spreads, but when it's tiny it can really brighten. Nobody will spot it.
In the old days of the conveyor belt orchestras on soundstages it was rare to select a particular ambience for a particular film or setting. People just didn't do that: an echo for a church scene, say, or a dry mike for the desert. The music was a storyteller split off from the film.
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Columbia, RCA, and then Capitol all had a room below the recording studios, a chamber it was called - they were the pioneers. The old EMTs they had for verb have never been bettered. The first recording I ever made in NY, there was an old EMT and our engineer used it for the playbacks and it was brilliant. It looked like a big stand-up vacuum cleaner. When we mixed the album in LA we used the state of the art verb unit then, I think it was called a 480-L and it was good but not like the EMT.
Finally, I made two recordings at Capitol in the last few years and we had the EMT - it was fantastic.
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A sublime score, I love all three ... but Kritzerland breathed new life into it so that one comes out on top.
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