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 Posted:   Dec 26, 2017 - 7:58 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

Looks to me the Tadlow KoK is a done deal and a special (not meant politically incorrectly) "hallelujah" for that, as that project's success frees up the way for future re-recorded scores.

However, I must put in my appreciation for the Rhino 2 disc. The sound was way better than I anticipated, and I personally found it far more engaging in terms of overall mastering than the Sony.

I had borrowed a copy of the cd and was absolutely thrilled to see the booklet intro written by the Maestro (and even more determined to someday have this jewel in my collection).

I still get depressed over seeing the at times predatory pricing of this classic presentation...however, wouldn't it be great to see this reissued wth perhaps the "Complete Ben Hur" as a model?

All of you have given me super reccomendations, and really helped steer me in the right direction when it came to getting the right recordings. Would love to hear your input and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 26, 2017 - 8:07 AM   
 By:   TacktheCobbler   (Member)

The Rhino edition is certainly fantastic. A quick word about the liner notes, those notes were derived from the liner notes from the original LP. George Komar has written vastly more in-depth notes for the CD which can be found here:


http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/notes/king_of_kings2.html

 
 Posted:   Dec 26, 2017 - 9:35 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

I was just smiling my face off reading Rozsa's notes, really loved them.

I actually have grown quite fond of the recording, all the way knowing what a lovingly done re-recording (see "Ben Hur", "Obsession") will do for it.

 
 Posted:   Dec 26, 2017 - 9:49 AM   
 By:   Lokutus   (Member)

Looks to me the Tadlow KoK is a done deal


Not entirely... still some 3,500 USD needed.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/681802762/king-of-kings-new-recording

 
 Posted:   Dec 26, 2017 - 9:59 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

Looks to me the Tadlow KoK is a done deal


Not entirely... still some 3,500 USD needed.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/681802762/king-of-kings-new-recording


Yow, I'm heading back over there.

 
 Posted:   Dec 26, 2017 - 11:07 PM   
 By:   Stefan Huber   (Member)

How does the sound quality on the Sony compare to the Rhino?

 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 1:50 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

How does the sound quality on the Sony compare to the Rhino?

I personally prefer the Rhino for sound...but then, I was never completely sold on the Sony to begin with. I might even sell my Sony soon, it's not just the lack of the prelude (a crippling loss to the Sony), but I personally don't care for the CD overall. I got it because I couldn't afford the Rhino. That situation will be changing very soon.

 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 6:06 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

The original music tracks for KING OF KINGS have never sounded good. There seems to have always been some sort of distortion present which was particularly noticeable in early video releases and TV showings. Current Blu-Ray and TV broadcasts are better but still not perfect. There’s a thread about it somewhere.

It’s one reason why the new Tadlow recording will be so welcome when we will be able to hear the music in greater clarity for the first time.

 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 7:58 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

The original music tracks for KING OF KINGS have never sounded good. There seems to have always been some sort of distortion present which was particularly noticeable in early video releases and TV showings. Current Blu-Ray and TV broadcasts are better but still not perfect. There’s a thread about it somewhere.

It’s one reason why the new Tadlow recording will be so welcome when we will be able to hear the music in greater clarity for the first time.


Well there's certainly distortion on all the recorded versions I've heard (I haven't heard the Treasury version yet). But (and not just for its time) the Rhino sounds really good to me. Maybe it's just me.

One of the attractive things about the older recordings (including the Rhino and Sony KoK) is the relative lack of compression on the overall mix, such over compression and limiting have been unfortunately evident on some rerecordings of other works (Prometheus Conan the Barbarian is a great example).

It should go without saying that an orchestra (and its individual instruments) needs to be represented with all dynamic ranges intact. Compression and limiting are all about the opposite of that, which is why it works so well for music that doesn't have much dynamic range (in general, at least): it works for Pop (and all its subgenres) , mostly because Pop is centered primarily on the beat. Anyone even with a moderately priced compressor can put a slow attack and fast release on and get a super pumping or (reverse the settings) punchy final sound. Concert and film music (and the better Pop like some of the Beatles, Stevie Wonder, etc.) don't usually require that kind of squished attentuation. The orchestra instruments need headroom, room to breathe.

Lucky for us, the Barbarian is the only rerecording I can think of coming from Prometheus and/or Tadlow that got kind of messed up in that respect (a couple of the Strombergs are sadly a victim of this relatively recent engineering phenomena).

I like what I like, and I REALLY like the sound on the Rhino. To each their own. I'm easily as excited as anyone else over the KS project goal's being met.

 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 8:09 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)


Lucky for us, the Barbarian is the only rerecording I can think of coming from Prometheus and/or Tadlow that got kind of messed up in that respect




Listen to the the loudest and dreadfully-congested sections of Quo Vadis. I'd contribute $50 to a Kickstarter to re-record the re-recording.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 8:31 AM   
 By:   michael469   (Member)


Lucky for us, the Barbarian is the only rerecording I can think of coming from Prometheus and/or Tadlow that got kind of messed up in that respect


Listen to the the loudest and dreadfully-congested sections of Quo Vadis. I'd contribute $50 to a Kickstarter to re-record the re-recording.


I thought I was the only one who noticed the loudness of certain cues.

 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 8:38 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)


Lucky for us, the Barbarian is the only rerecording I can think of coming from Prometheus and/or Tadlow that got kind of messed up in that respect




Listen to the the loudest and dreadfully-congested sections of Quo Vadis. I'd contribute $50 to a Kickstarter to re-record the re-recording.


You're right...I hadn't noticed it as much on that one as the Barbarian.

Overall though, LOVE that QV recording (though a new mastering would be great for both of the abovementioned titles).

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 8:50 AM   
 By:   paul rossen   (Member)

The original music tracks for KING OF KINGS have never sounded good. There seems to have always been some sort of distortion present which was particularly noticeable in early video releases and TV showings. Current Blu-Ray and TV broadcasts are better but still not perfect. There’s a thread about it somewhere.

It’s one reason why the new Tadlow recording will be so welcome when we will be able to hear the music in greater clarity for the first time.


To my ears the original Mono LP release is the best sounding version of King of Kings. I'm sure that the upcoming Tadlow will be smashing.

 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 9:01 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

The original music tracks for KING OF KINGS have never sounded good. There seems to have always been some sort of distortion present which was particularly noticeable in early video releases and TV showings. Current Blu-Ray and TV broadcasts are better but still not perfect. There’s a thread about it somewhere.

It’s one reason why the new Tadlow recording will be so welcome when we will be able to hear the music in greater clarity for the first time.


To my ears the original Mono LP release is the best sounding version of King of Kings. I'm sure that the upcoming Tadlow will be smashing.


Plus as always Tadlow's packaging will be pristine...safe bet there smile

 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 9:20 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)


Lucky for us, the Barbarian is the only rerecording I can think of coming from Prometheus and/or Tadlow that got kind of messed up in that respect


Listen to the the loudest and dreadfully-congested sections of Quo Vadis. I'd contribute $50 to a Kickstarter to re-record the re-recording.


I thought I was the only one who noticed the loudness of certain cues.





There was plenty of discussion at the time. Even the guys at Intrada joined in the complaints about it in the forums. Really excellent performances (I especially liked the singing of the Nero parts), but made to sound like the marches and other loud sections were recorded in a small room with a low ceiling.

 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 2:48 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)



To my ears the original Mono LP release is the best sounding version of King of Kings. I'm sure that the upcoming Tadlow will be smashing.



Mono? It was always stereo.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 3:29 PM   
 By:   paul rossen   (Member)



To my ears the original Mono LP release is the best sounding version of King of Kings. I'm sure that the upcoming Tadlow will be smashing.



Mono? It was always stereo.


Stereo and Mono releases. My MGM mono lp that came in the big box with the souvenir program sounds to my ears better than the stereo cd version as found in the FSM Rozsa Treasury as well as the distorted Rhino complete release.

 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 4:09 PM   
 By:   George Komar   (Member)

My MGM stereo LP that came in the big box with the souvenir program sounds to my ears way better than my MGM mono LP that came in the big box with the souvenir program. wink

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 4:46 PM   
 By:   paul rossen   (Member)

My MGM stereo LP that came in the big box with the souvenir program sounds to my ears way better than my MGM mono LP that came in the big box with the souvenir program. wink

Don't have the stereo lp.

Looking forward to Tadlow's version as their Rozsa recordings are all top notch.

 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2017 - 5:03 PM   
 By:   George Komar   (Member)

Paul, you asked how the stereo LP compared with the FSM CD.

Well the first pressing of the stereo LP was mastered directly from the stereo album "disc masters."

As for the FSM Treasury, FSM acknowledged that...

"the true stereo album masters had gone missing—and remain lost to this day. The true-stereo master had, however, been released on commercial open-reel ¼-inch tape by MGM Records at the time of the film’s release, and thanks to the generosity of Rózsa Society members Mark Koldys and Herb Norenberg is presented on disc 12 newly mastered from their personal copies of that now-scarce open-reel release."

Open-reel tapes were copied from a "slave master" which, in turn, was copied from an "open-reel master" supplied by MGM Records to Ampex. The latter, in turn, was at least one generation away from MGM Records' "master tape."

 
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