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 Posted:   Dec 29, 2017 - 2:39 PM   
 By:   orbital   (Member)

Like the KOK thread shows there's more than enough ideas floating around and James Fitzpatrick/Tadlow can only do so much.

So: Anyone in contact with anyone from team Morgan/Stromberg/Bonn? Did they take notice of the successful Kickstarter campaign by James? Would they consider rebooting their fine label going this route?

Questions, questions...

TFC: We need you!

 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2017 - 3:38 AM   
 By:   orbital   (Member)

Via Twitter (I'm not on Facebook) I found this post from April this year:

"It's wishful thinking at this point but we're talking about possibly doing some new recordings. What would be on YOUR wish list? Personally, I would love to do a complete version of Herrmann's "All That Money Can Buy"."

https://www.facebook.com/tributefilmclassics/posts/10154949236486140

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2017 - 4:31 AM   
 By:   JamesFitz   (Member)

Via Twitter (I'm not on Facebook) I found this post from April this year:

"It's wishful thinking at this point but we're talking about possibly doing some new recordings. What would be on YOUR wish list? Personally, I would love to do a complete version of Herrmann's "All That Money Can Buy"."

https://www.facebook.com/tributefilmclassics/posts/10154949236486140


It would be great if others can try Kickstarter .... but I do believe that that the rewards I could offer were attractive to many as some £19,500 pledges came from people wanting to come to the recording sessions in Prague. So one has to be both careful to attract as many people as possible with a well known title along with generous rewards. There are many more worthy yet obscure scores (to the majority) I would love to do ...but most would never take off on Kickstarter or the like?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2017 - 6:46 AM   
 By:   jonathan_little   (Member)

It would be great if others can try Kickstarter .... but I do believe that that the rewards I could offer were attractive to many as some £19,500 pledges came from people wanting to come to the recording sessions in Prague. So one has to be both careful to attract as many people as possible with a well known title along with generous rewards. There are many more worthy yet obscure scores (to the majority) I would love to do ...but most would never take off on Kickstarter or the like?

There's probably some sort of saturation point for the large rewards as well... I wonder how many of that £19,500 block of large pledges would be interested in sustaining that for future recordings (or how many new ones would be out there for a different score.)

I saw this much as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity as a fan of orchestral music to see how a recording session comes to be. I'd certainly support new recordings on Kickstarter in the future, but it's unlikely to be at a level I did here.

 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2017 - 10:50 AM   
 By:   JTWfan77   (Member)

This would be amazing! I've only recently dipped my toe in the waters by sampling two of Morgan/Stromberg's older recordings for Marco Polo (King Kong and Operation Burma) courtesy of Deezer, and they are simply stunning! The clarity of the recordings is superb, and the performance by the Moscow players is first-rate IMHUI.

 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2017 - 10:54 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Their recordings for their own label were superior to much of their Marco Polo/Naxos work, so you're really in for a treat when you move on to Mysterious Island!

Personally I really hope they do decide to try a Kickstarter for funding. If they pick the right score I think they'd have success. How 'bout Black Patch and Face of a Fugitive, guys? smile

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2017 - 10:56 AM   
 By:   Jim Cleveland   (Member)


TFC: We need you!



THIS!!!!!!

 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2017 - 11:15 AM   
 By:   orbital   (Member)

Well, I'd be all over that "complete version of Herrmann's "All That Money Can Buy"" and would gladly act accordingly on Kickstarter or whatever platform TFC deems appropriate...

Fingers crossed that there will be some movement in 2018!

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2017 - 3:08 PM   
 By:   JamesFitz   (Member)

Their recordings for their own label were superior to much of their Marco Polo/Naxos work, so you're really in for a treat when you move on to Mysterious Island!

Personally I really hope they do decide to try a Kickstarter for funding. If they pick the right score I think they'd have success. How 'bout Black Patch and Face of a Fugitive, guys? smile

Yavar


Yavar why are you obsessed with BLACK PATCH and FACE OF A FUGITIVE!!! So far 3 different labels that I know of have rejected the idea of doing these scores. Yes, they are early Goldsmith, but while being interesting hardly set the world on fire musically. And even though the orchestras are not huge the new recording costs would never be covered by the sales ...and believe me I know exactly how many Goldsmith things like HOUR OF THE GUN, QBVII and SALAMANDER sold. The only way these will ever get recorded is if a label is a person as stupid as me were to fund such a venture.....smile

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2017 - 5:56 PM   
 By:   Nicholas_DW   (Member)

I would gladly help you fund it, James.

 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2017 - 2:11 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Yavar why are you obsessed with BLACK PATCH and FACE OF A FUGITIVE!!! So far 3 different labels that I know of have rejected the idea of doing these scores. Yes, they are early Goldsmith, but while being interesting hardly set the world on fire musically. And even though the orchestras are not huge the new recording costs would never be covered by the sales ...and believe me I know exactly how many Goldsmith things like HOUR OF THE GUN, QBVII and SALAMANDER sold. The only way these will ever get recorded is if a label is a person as stupid as me were to fund such a venture.....smile

I'm glad you asked, James! smile

Short version: I really like both of these scores. Stuff like this DOES set my world on fire musically:





Those gorgeous cues from Black Patch for me are way up there with the best of Goldsmith's output. I like other parts of Face of a Fugitive much more than that main title, but I can't supply them without supplying the entire film. And in fact, I like both of these scores enough that I took time to not only figure out Complete Score Breakdowns but also to write hopeful "advance liner notes" in anticipation of a release some day:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=119663&forumID=1&archive=0
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=113490&forumID=1&archive=0

Now out of my Goldsmith obsession, I did do breakdowns for other unreleased Goldsmith scores as well, but you'll notice that if I didn't find them particularly engaging musically, I didn't bother to write the detailed notes:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=113552&forumID=1&archive=0
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=116974&forumID=1&archive=0

Long version:

1. Jerry Goldsmith is my single favorite composer of all time...and he is also perhaps the single most popular composer among fellow film music fans.

2. Westerns are one of my favorite film music genres (if not my very favorite) -- and a particularly well-selling genre among fellow film music fans.

3. Yes, there is historical importance due to these scores being Jerry's first two western scores (and first and third feature scores, ever) when he went on to do so much great work in the genre. But for me, the scores are of a high quality consistent with his later popular work in the genre.

4. Besides that, and perhaps most importantly, not a single note of either score has been released (commercially or not!) This makes them more important for preservation, but I suspect also increases their sales potential.

5. I realize that that also describes The Salamander, which I heard didn't sell very well. But that was not a score in a popular genre (western/sci-fi/epic/fantasy). And if you're intimating that Hour of the Gun also didn't sell very well, I would point out that many people already had the Goldsmith-conducted original album for that score and considered it a satisfactory representation -- I've heard that from several fans I've tried talking into purchasing the Tadlow recording, and it's not as if Goldsmith left off huge highlights from his original album as he sometimes did. Aside from that it is perhaps Goldsmith's darkest and most understated western score. I'm ever so grateful you tackled it but it was a surprising first choice for the series, IMO.

6. QBVII and The Salamander required time-consuming and expensive reconstruction by ear. They also required large orchestra and even some choir, and QBVII is perhaps Goldsmith's longest score. And besides, neither title (unfortunately) fits in with the genres most popular with film music fans (QBVII is...a courtroom drama, albeit a wide-ranging one). I'm sure it was a much harder prospect for them to make their money back. On the other hand, you are producing a second volume of Thriller...probably more because it cost so much less to record than those other two, rather than because it sold so many more copies. But please correct me if I'm wrong on that -- maybe it was a little of both, as Thriller is of a more popular genre. These two scores have similarly small orchestras, and furthermore you yourself gave me hope for this project sometime back when you revealed you had looked into the written scores for each of these and discovered they both still existed in the Academy archives, removing the need to reconstruct by ear.

In conclusion, I would ask you: why NOT give us fans a chance put our money where our mouth is? I assure you I'm not the only one here this interested; others are perhaps just a bit less vocal. (But then again some are just as vocal, such as zooba who has started multiple threads on Black Patch and Face of a Fugitive, and who created that YouTube suite I embedded above.)

All you have to do to shut me/us up and prove once and for all that these scores aren't viable is this: do a Kickstarter with similar rewards and such as your successful King of Kings one, only make it for the full amount needed rather than (less than) half. I think you said 87,000 pounds for KoK in the end? Rough figuring here, but that's a two-and-a-quarter hour score with huge orchestra and choir...longer if you include cues that Rozsa wrote but did not record for the film, a la your superb recent Ben-Hur recording. Black Patch and Face of a Fugitive are each just over a half hour long, and utilize a fairly small orchestra with no choir. It doesn't seem likely that they would cost over 40,000 pounds to record both together, when their combined total is less than half the length of KoK and with fewer musicians to pay. Perhaps somewhat less?

So here's a further suggestion: make the Kickstarter only for Black Patch, Jerry's very first feature score and the more historically important of the two. Just over a half hour on disc -- but I'll bet you that didn't stop Intrada for selling a bunch of Damnation Alley (again, scifi, like western = popular genre) copies at $21.99 each. Many fans *would* just buy it out of curiosity or bottlecap mentality, in addition to the many ones like me and zooba who actually want it for the music. How much would it cost just to record Black Patch? 20,000 pounds? Less? Give us a chance, and maybe you'll be the one who is surprised at the support...KoK only has a few hundred donors including some generous ones, and Black Patch on its own would need half that support or less to be fully funded. Give Jerry a chance and maybe you'll be surprised. smile And if you ARE surprised, then you can add the inclusion of Face of a Fugitive as a stretch goal if the Kickstarter makes it past 40,000 pounds or whatever.

If you're not willing to give it a chance, then fine -- but what's wrong with me making this case to John, Bill, and Anna? This is after all a thread about Tribute Film Classics and not Tadlow. smile

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2017 - 2:36 AM   
 By:   Loverozsa   (Member)

Yavar,
I hope your dream comes true. My dream was to have all of the Rozsa great epics re-recorded and, with "King Of Kings", that has happened. I hope it happens for you, too.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2017 - 2:37 AM   
 By:   michael469   (Member)

This would be amazing! I've only recently dipped my toe in the waters by sampling two of Morgan/Stromberg's older recordings for Marco Polo (King Kong and Operation Burma) courtesy of Deezer, and they are simply stunning! The clarity of the recordings is superb, and the performance by the Moscow players is first-rate IMHUI.

I didn't find the King Kong a very good listening experience. I have the Marco Polo release. It seems to me to be a very 'constrained' sound, so I have to turn the amp up quite a bit to get a reasonable soundstage effect.

 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2017 - 8:26 AM   
 By:   JTWfan77   (Member)

I didn't find the King Kong a very good listening experience. I have the Marco Polo release. It seems to me to be a very 'constrained' sound, so I have to turn the amp up quite a bit to get a reasonable soundstage effect.

Ah, okay, I understand. I was listening through my Sennheiser 'phones, which of course tend to exaggerate l/r separation. I never listen to my film music over my audio system (NAD source, Musical Fidelity amplification and Linn speakers) out of fear of being ostracised by the public at large! wink

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2017 - 9:22 AM   
 By:   Bill Cooke   (Member)


Tribute's desire to do a complete "All That Money Can Buy" surprises me because I thought they made the attempt a while back and, after working on it a little, decided the full score wasn't as satisfying as they thought due to the large number of small cues. Did I dream that?

Regardless, I would buy anything they decide to do, because their work in this arena is exemplary.

Even the hinted-at redo of KING KONG would be welcome.



 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2017 - 9:54 AM   
 By:   Dylan   (Member)

A complete re-recording of Herrmann's "The Devil and Daniel Webster" would be incredible. Also, being an Oscar-winning score gives it a little extra clout and historical significance, which can only be good for the hypothetical crowd-funding campaign.

As far as other titles go, I really do hope "The Night of the Hunter" is a possibility someday.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2017 - 10:00 AM   
 By:   Dylan   (Member)

Tribute's desire to do a complete "All That Money Can Buy" surprises me because I thought they made the attempt a while back and, after working on it a little, decided the full score wasn't as satisfying as they thought due to the large number of small cues. Did I dream that?

You're definitely not dreaming:

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=65319&forumID=1&archive=0

I am a bit curious how their reconsideration of this title came to light.

 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2017 - 10:17 AM   
 By:   orbital   (Member)

Interesting thread. Thanks for linking to it, Dylan.

I keep my fingers crossed for DEVIL AND DANIEL WEBSTER / ATMCB but more generally speaking it would be fantastic to see TFC active again in the first place. smile

I hope they will take that crowd funding route into consideration.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2017 - 10:18 AM   
 By:   paul rossen   (Member)

Their recordings for their own label were superior to much of their Marco Polo/Naxos work, so you're really in for a treat when you move on to Mysterious Island!

Personally I really hope they do decide to try a Kickstarter for funding. If they pick the right score I think they'd have success. How 'bout Black Patch and Face of a Fugitive, guys? smile

Yavar


Yavar why are you obsessed with BLACK PATCH and FACE OF A FUGITIVE!!! So far 3 different labels that I know of have rejected the idea of doing these scores. Yes, they are early Goldsmith, but while being interesting hardly set the world on fire musically. And even though the orchestras are not huge the new recording costs would never be covered by the sales ...and believe me I know exactly how many Goldsmith things like HOUR OF THE GUN, QBVII and SALAMANDER sold. The only way these will ever get recorded is if a label is a person as stupid as me were to fund such a venture.....smile


So sorry to learn that QBV11 didn't sell well. What an amazing reconstruction!

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2017 - 11:06 AM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

Yavar why are you obsessed with BLACK PATCH and FACE OF A FUGITIVE!!! So far 3 different labels that I know of have rejected the idea of doing these scores. Yes, they are early Goldsmith, but while being interesting hardly set the world on fire musically. And even though the orchestras are not huge the new recording costs would never be covered by the sales ...and believe me I know exactly how many Goldsmith things like HOUR OF THE GUN, QBVII and SALAMANDER sold. The only way these will ever get recorded is if a label is a person as stupid as me were to fund such a venture.....smile

I'm glad you asked, James! smile

Short version: I really like both of these scores. Stuff like this DOES set my world on fire musically:





Those gorgeous cues from Black Patch for me are way up there with the best of Goldsmith's output. I like other parts of Face of a Fugitive much more than that main title, but I can't supply them without supplying the entire film. And in fact, I like both of these scores enough that I took time to not only figure out Complete Score Breakdowns but also to write hopeful "advance liner notes" in anticipation of a release some day:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=119663&forumID=1&archive=0
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=113490&forumID=1&archive=0

Now out of my Goldsmith obsession, I did do breakdowns for other unreleased Goldsmith scores as well, but you'll notice that if I didn't find them particularly engaging musically, I didn't bother to write the detailed notes:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=113552&forumID=1&archive=0
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=116974&forumID=1&archive=0

Long version:

1. Jerry Goldsmith is my single favorite composer of all time...and he is also perhaps the single most popular composer among fellow film music fans.

2. Westerns are one of my favorite film music genres (if not my very favorite) -- and a particularly well-selling genre among fellow film music fans.

3. Yes, there is historical importance due to these scores being Jerry's first two western scores (and first and third feature scores, ever) when he went on to do so much great work in the genre. But for me, the scores are of a high quality consistent with his later popular work in the genre.

4. Besides that, and perhaps most importantly, not a single note of either score has been released (commercially or not!) This makes them more important for preservation, but I suspect also increases their sales potential.

5. I realize that that also describes The Salamander, which I heard didn't sell very well. But that was not a score in a popular genre (western/sci-fi/epic/fantasy). And if you're intimating that Hour of the Gun also didn't sell very well, I would point out that many people already had the Goldsmith-conducted original album for that score and considered it a satisfactory representation -- I've heard that from several fans I've tried talking into purchasing the Tadlow recording, and it's not as if Goldsmith left off huge highlights from his original album as he sometimes did. Aside from that it is perhaps Goldsmith's darkest and most understated western score. I'm ever so grateful you tackled it but it was a surprising first choice for the series, IMO.

6. QBVII and The Salamander required time-consuming and expensive reconstruction by ear. They also required large orchestra and even some choir, and QBVII is perhaps Goldsmith's longest score. And besides, neither title (unfortunately) fits in with the genres most popular with film music fans (QBVII is...a courtroom drama, albeit a wide-ranging one). I'm sure it was a much harder prospect for them to make their money back. On the other hand, you are producing a second volume of Thriller...probably more because it cost so much less to record than those other two, rather than because it sold so many more copies. But please correct me if I'm wrong on that -- maybe it was a little of both, as Thriller is of a more popular genre. These two scores have similarly small orchestras, and furthermore you yourself gave me hope for this project sometime back when you revealed you had looked into the written scores for each of these and discovered they both still existed in the Academy archives, removing the need to reconstruct by ear.

In conclusion, I would ask you: why NOT give us fans a chance put our money where our mouth is? I assure you I'm not the only one here this interested; others are perhaps just a bit less vocal. (But then again some are just as vocal, such as zooba who has started multiple threads on Black Patch and Face of a Fugitive, and who created that YouTube suite I embedded above.)

All you have to do to shut me/us up and prove once and for all that these scores aren't viable is this: do a Kickstarter with similar rewards and such as your successful King of Kings one, only make it for the full amount needed rather than (less than) half. I think you said 87,000 pounds for KoK in the end? Rough figuring here, but that's a two-and-a-quarter hour score with huge orchestra and choir...longer if you include cues that Rozsa wrote but did not record for the film, a la your superb recent Ben-Hur recording. Black Patch and Face of a Fugitive are each just over a half hour long, and utilize a fairly small orchestra with no choir. It doesn't seem likely that they would cost over 40,000 pounds to record both together, when their combined total is less than half the length of KoK and with fewer musicians to pay. Perhaps somewhat less?

So here's a further suggestion: make the Kickstarter only for Black Patch, Jerry's very first feature score and the more historically important of the two. Just over a half hour on disc -- but I'll bet you that didn't stop Intrada for selling a bunch of Damnation Alley (again, scifi, like western = popular genre) copies at $21.99 each. Many fans *would* just buy it out of curiosity or bottlecap mentality, in addition to the many ones like me and zooba who actually want it for the music. How much would it cost just to record Black Patch? 20,000 pounds? Less? Give us a chance, and maybe you'll be the one who is surprised at the support...KoK only has a few hundred donors including some generous ones, and Black Patch on its own would need half that support or less to be fully funded. Give Jerry a chance and maybe you'll be surprised. smile And if you ARE surprised, then you can add the inclusion of Face of a Fugitive as a stretch goal if the Kickstarter makes it past 40,000 pounds or whatever.

If you're not willing to give it a chance, then fine -- but what's wrong with me making this case to John, Bill, and Anna? This is after all a thread about Tribute Film Classics and not Tadlow. smile

Yavar


I also remember your idea of integrating BLACK PATCH and FACE OF A FUGITIVE into a Goldsmith western film music set which I think would be the most viable. Since the scores for these two are so short they could be put into suites. They could even unearth some of his best TV and radio work and combine it with some unusual renderings of his best selling western scores. I would think the Goldsmith fans (which still seem to be substantial) might find that hard to resist.

All that said Stromberg has always stayed "Golden" and my guess he would only come out of retirement for something like THE DEVIL AND DANIEL WEBSTER, ABBOTT AND COSTELLO MEET FRANKENSTEIN or (my favorite) NIGHT OF THE HUNTER.

 
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