 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It is "expanded" release, that's the point.
Intrada never called this release "complete".
I didn't hear this album yet, but if this cues arent on this set, it is because (probably?) it was written by another composer.
As we know, 16 orchestrators helps Kamen finish this score, and probably somebody (Don Davis?) composed some cues without credits.
Or those cues are just edited from another tracks?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It is "expanded" release, that's the point.
Intrada never called this release "complete".
I didn't hear this album yet, but if this cues arent on this set, it is because (probably?) it was written by another composer.
As we know, 16 orchestrators helps Kamen finish this score, and probably somebody (Don Davis?) composed some cues without credits.
Or those cues are just edited from another tracks?
Yeah he was rumoured to use ghost writers e.g. IRON GIANT.
Just ask Lt. Columbo
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Jan 11, 2018 - 10:24 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
lukasz22
(Member)
|
It is "expanded" release, that's the point.
Intrada never called this release "complete".
I didn't hear this album yet, but if this cues arent on this set, it is because (probably?) it was written by another composer.
As we know, 16 orchestrators helps Kamen finish this score, and probably somebody (Don Davis?) composed some cues without credits.
Or those cues are just edited from another tracks?
I know there were some orchestrators and composers who helped him to finish it, however if some of them wrote some cues, they should be on this album as well. Especially if some of them wrote the cue when Robin comes to the shores of England, which is a memorable cue and appeared on the original album in 1991. If Intrada assumably states that these tracks are not on this edition because of other ghostwriters, then if some of these tracks were on the original album and are not here - that's a lame excuse then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
Jan 11, 2018 - 10:32 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
lukasz22
(Member)
|
It is "expanded" release, that's the point.
Intrada never called this release "complete".
I didn't hear this album yet, but if this cues arent on this set, it is because (probably?) it was written by another composer.
As we know, 16 orchestrators helps Kamen finish this score, and probably somebody (Don Davis?) composed some cues without credits.
Or those cues are just edited from another tracks?
I don't think also that those are inserted, edited in other tracks, at least not all of them for sure. Also, we probably won't know anything on this subject from the booklet, because Intrada rarely gives any explanation in booklet about some missing music (most of the time fortunately they don't have to because scores are in most cases complete) . Sometimes in Doug's talk there is something that the score is here like the composer wanted it to be or intended in the film, for instance Silvestri's Predator. However in Robin Hood's case I'm afraid we won't have clearly statement in the booklet about these missing cues. I hope I'm wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Jan 11, 2018 - 3:05 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
Mink
(Member)
|
Regarding all the talk of Michael using “ghost writers” I can only say, it’s not true and quote my own post from the thread about the release:
If I would tell you to orchestrate “All You Need Is Love”, and you do the most crazy version of it; you’d still be an arranger, not the writer or composer of that title.
Does the fact that Quincy Jones is “only” credited on four out of 10 songs on Michael Jackson’s “Off the Wall” album diminish any of his Producer credit and obvious influence on that project?
The same goes for Michael. He would have definitely written out every cue on his big projects exactly the way he wanted to, but with the time that they give you with those, you can only do as much as humanly possible. And Michael was generally working around the clock and pulled all-nighters constantly.
He would also make room for other people for them to try and he was very generous with the crediting of his cue sheets.
Naturally there’re examples where an arranger would make his very own thing out of a piece of music (see the “James Bond Theme”), but Michael worked on and conducted every single cue on all of his scores himself and very often changed things on the fly while recording them. All the immensely crazy energy, the humor, the heart and melancholy in the music, that’s all him! He was certainly a composer with such an individual voice that anyone familiar with his music can’t deny his strong trademarks in each and every single one of his cues. The performances he brought out of the orchestra were very characteristic too; he loved the rough around the edges and very often would prefer a less-polished but way more energetic take instead of going with the recording of a cue that had been rehearsed 20 times. There’s no doubt that all of his scores are 100% him, no matter what some people might claim to have written.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well in his autobiography Pete Townshend claimed he couldnt afford Kamen for THE IRON GIANT.
They made a deal where Kamen would be credited as composer and he would farm out most of the work.
Fwiw.
Nobody is saying he isnt a very talented musician.
Brm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
Jan 11, 2018 - 10:10 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
lukasz22
(Member)
|
According to El Jefe at JWFAN, who got the set already: http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/28159-michael-kamens-robin-hood-prince-of-thieves-released-by-intrada/&do=findComment&comment=1441767
“The Music, minus a short bit at the beginning, during Robin's escape from the Dungeon appears to all be present. Doug Fake mentions this in the booklet that the music wasn't included in the session mixes.
The music is also presented the way Kamen originally intended and recorded and there were some obvious tracking and looping in the film so there may not be music present on the album where you expected it to be and Doug Fake also makes that pretty clear in the liner notes.
There is a wealth of wonderful music we get to hear outside of the film for the first time and this album is a nice tip of the hat to swashbuckling, adventure films of the past. The sound is excellent.
Now off to figure out where that short piece that begins the ends credits in the film is on the album. ”
According to this what you say. the whole Robin's escape from the dungeon (including Peter's death on the outside of the dungeon and making aquaintance with Azeem eating the fruits) is present on this set? The film version I mean. That's probably true (the second part of 'From Chains to Freedom' track probably) , but where is the music of Robin's father talking with the old man in his castle and his death, burning by the masked men with Sheriff asking him to join them, and when Robin gets to the shores of England lying on the sand and kissing it? If tapes with these cues weren't in the studio, then Intrada should have had found them , or at least explain it, I mean - the tapes weren't in the session mixes? Then where the hell are they?
The other thing what you mention - even if some missing music is inserted in other cues later on the album, I still can't recall music from Robin's father's death and swimming back to shore in some other parts in the film. And I know the music and the film quite good. Maybe Intrada put this music in some other cues, but in the film they were used in a different way, different moments. However, I hope they ARE on the album.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There’s no doubt that all of his scores are 100% him, no matter what some people might claim to have written.
I love Michael Kamen's music, but a number of of his scores were collaborations with other musicians...
Lethal Weapon was co-written with Eric Clapton.
Action Jackson was co-written with Herbie Hancock.
Hudson Hawk was co-written with Robert Kraft.
Let Him Have It featured additional music by Edward Shermur.
Bruce Babcock is credited on one of Lethal Weapon's cues.
And Highlander's love theme is drawn from "Who Want's to Live Forever?" by Queen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Just curious…
Why wouldn't you listen to the album before kicking up a storm when you don't yet know what is or isn't on it…?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
Jan 12, 2018 - 7:07 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
mstrox
(Member)
|
According to this what you say. the whole Robin's escape from the dungeon (including Peter's death on the outside of the dungeon and making aquaintance with Azeem eating the fruits) is present on this set? The film version I mean. That's probably true (the second part of 'From Chains to Freedom' track probably) , but where is the music of Robin's father talking with the old man in his castle and his death, burning by the masked men with Sheriff asking him to join them, and when Robin gets to the shores of England lying on the sand and kissing it? If tapes with these cues weren't in the studio, then Intrada should have had found them , or at least explain it, I mean - the tapes weren't in the session mixes? Then where the hell are they?
The other thing what you mention - even if some missing music is inserted in other cues later on the album, I still can't recall music from Robin's father's death and swimming back to shore in some other parts in the film. And I know the music and the film quite good. Maybe Intrada put this music in some other cues, but in the film they were used in a different way, different moments. However, I hope they ARE on the album.
Maybe you can head over to JWFan and ask the guy yourself - I'm just the messenger 
Based on the post, it sounds to me like the score is "complete" except for one brief cue. If music isn't placed where you expect it, it's probably somewhere else on the album where the composer originally intended it to be.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
Jan 12, 2018 - 8:48 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
lukasz22
(Member)
|
According to this what you say. the whole Robin's escape from the dungeon (including Peter's death on the outside of the dungeon and making aquaintance with Azeem eating the fruits) is present on this set? The film version I mean. That's probably true (the second part of 'From Chains to Freedom' track probably) , but where is the music of Robin's father talking with the old man in his castle and his death, burning by the masked men with Sheriff asking him to join them, and when Robin gets to the shores of England lying on the sand and kissing it? If tapes with these cues weren't in the studio, then Intrada should have had found them , or at least explain it, I mean - the tapes weren't in the session mixes? Then where the hell are they?
The other thing what you mention - even if some missing music is inserted in other cues later on the album, I still can't recall music from Robin's father's death and swimming back to shore in some other parts in the film. And I know the music and the film quite good. Maybe Intrada put this music in some other cues, but in the film they were used in a different way, different moments. However, I hope they ARE on the album.
Maybe you can head over to JWFan and ask the guy yourself - I'm just the messenger
Based on the post, it sounds to me like the score is "complete" except for one brief cue. If music isn't placed where you expect it, it's probably somewhere else on the album where the composer originally intended it to be.
Okey, and can you give me his email or something? How can I contact him?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
