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 Posted:   Jan 18, 2018 - 8:54 PM   
 By:   Zooba   (Member)

To be honest I have never really seen the entire film. Just parts here and there. Don't know why. But Alex North's LP of the Soundtrack has been in my collection for years. I always liked the parts of the score that had the grandeur of his SHOES OF THE FISHERMAN. I just recently picked up the DVD for cheap and am now getting around to actually watching the movie. I had seen the Goldsmith scored Prologue, THE ARTIST WHO DID NOT WANT TO PAINT and enjoyed that, so nicely complemented by Jerry's gorgeous music.

Just wondering what you all's thoughts are on the film and score. Would any of you consider it a "hard watch", I mean did you find it boring or long or uninteresting? And what are your feelings about Alex North's score as used in the film? At the beginning I found Rex Harrison's performance as the Pope similar to his portrayal of Caesar in CLEOPATRA. I don't particularly see this famous English actor that compelling as either Caesar or the Pope. It's like they said, let's just put this Shakespearean sounding actor in the appropriate period costumes and everything will be okay. Don't really buy it. Anyway, please share your thoughts. I find the process that Michelangelo went through to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel quite fascinating and really did not know that he basically did a paint by numbers technique where he and his assistants laid out the imagery first and then he just painted over it. Quite remarkable indeed! I always thought he just got up there and started painting.

Is it just a rumor or was Goldsmith originally in line to score THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY, the film itself? Or was North always the composer and was to also score the Prologue, but that didn't work out and so they gave the job to Goldsmith?

Thanks.

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2018 - 5:09 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

I don't view that film as a 'serious' Michelangelo history, but as a sort of tragi-comic play about the relationship between artists and patrons. Who knows what Stone made of that? As such it's okay, and the two principles' charisma served that.

But Anthony Quinn should've been Michelangelo. He was a good artist (so was Chuck in a lesser way) who knew sculpture and paint, and he looked right.

I think the prologue documentary was to a large extent conceived as a separate entity.

Goldsmith's CD rerecording of North's excellent score has two faults: it's so slow it's as long as the old album despite leaving out the source cues (!!!), and the echo is vast.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2018 - 5:53 AM   
 By:   eriknelson   (Member)

To be honest I have never really seen the entire film. Just parts here and there. Don't know why. But Alex North's LP of the Soundtrack has been in my collection for years. I always liked the parts of the score that had the grandeur of his SHOES OF THE FISHERMAN. I just recently picked up the DVD for cheap and am now getting around to actually watching the movie. I had seen the Goldsmith scored Prologue, THE ARTIST WHO DID NOT WANT TO PAINT and enjoyed that, so nicely complemented by Jerry's gorgeous music.

Just wondering what you all's thoughts are on the film and score. Would any of you consider it a "hard watch", I mean did you find it boring or long or uninteresting? And what are your feelings about Alex North's score as used in the film? At the beginning I found Rex Harrison's performance as the Pope similar to his portrayal of Caesar in CLEOPATRA. I don't particularly see this famous English actor that compelling as either Caesar or the Pope. It's like they said, let's just put this Shakespearean sounding actor in the appropriate period costumes and everything will be okay. Don't really buy it. Anyway, please share your thoughts. I find the process that Michelangelo went through to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel quite fascinating and really did not know that he basically did a paint by numbers technique where he and his assistants laid out the imagery first and then he just painted over it. Quite remarkable indeed! I always thought he just got up there and started painting.

Is it just a rumor or was Goldsmith originally in line to score THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY, the film itself? Or was North always the composer and was to also score the Prologue, but that didn't work out and so they gave the job to Goldsmith?

Thanks.



I remember reading that the Prologue was conceived as a separate entity late in production, I suppose to educate audiences about Michelangelo. Alex North was already working on another film and didn't have time to score the Prologue. He recommended Jerry Goldsmith to do the honors.

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2018 - 5:57 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

Well, it's not Ben Hur or One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, but a good film. I don't really gel musically with anything but the Jerry portion of the score.

I'm not the biggest North fan anyway outside of Cleopatra, Journey Into Fear, and a couple of others.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2018 - 5:57 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

Didn't Alex North pass on THE SAND PEBBLES, and recommended JG for that (too)? Am I getting mixed up?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2018 - 7:35 AM   
 By:   Joe Caps   (Member)

Alex North was always supposed to do the film.
The prologue was never planned as a separate entity.
fox had promised a roadshow, but the final cut was not long enough so they picked up everything the director left on the cutting room floor and put it back n. - Still not long enough, so they added the prologue to boost the running time.
By the time they decided to add the prologue, North had left the film and was working on something else.
BTW the blu ray looks much better than the dvd.

Also, I have asked this question many times here and it has never been answered.
Was the North score recorded at Fox or in Italy?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2018 - 7:55 AM   
 By:   paul rossen   (Member)

The Blu ray is stunning. If one is a fan of the film this should be part of your collection.

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2018 - 9:53 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Chiefly remembered for his eminence's remarks about getting the job done. I thought North did an excellent job of el Popa's thematic mix of theatre, military and all things courtly rolled into one.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2018 - 10:09 AM   
 By:   bobbengan   (Member)

Never once noticed North's score, and I've seen the film three or four times (in entirety!). However, Goldsmith's prologue music is, in my opinion, his masterwork - A real brilliant, inspired 12-minute sustained piece more than worthy of the concert hall.

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2018 - 10:30 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)


The prologue was never planned as a separate entity.
fox had promised a roadshow, but the final cut was not long enough so they picked up everything the director left on the cutting room floor and put it back n. - Still not long enough, so they added the prologue to boost the running time.


Yes, I always thought the prologue was there to pad out the running time. AGONY AND THE ECSTASY is one of the very shortest 70mm roadshow "epic" films. Although it has a quoted running time of 138 minutes, the film is actually only 2 hours long with the rest of the time being the Prelude (which was confusing for audiences), Intermission and Exit Music.

It's one of those films which only worked well on the 70mm screen, where it had a grandeur that can't be captured on a TV screen, where the spectacle is diminished and one is just left with the story which is somewhat lacking in drama. I thought Charlton Heston very good in the role. In fact I recall many British critics at the time praising his performance over that of Rex Harrison.

It was certainly a bold and commendable decision to make an expensive 70mm film about the work of an artist.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2018 - 2:31 PM   
 By:   James MacMillan   (Member)

I picked up a copy of the DVD a few years back, found in a charity shop for £1.50. Now and again I give it a spin for just the prologue, followed by North's main title music, and then shut down.

Of North's epic-style scores, this is the least interesting for me - Cleopatra, Spartacus and even The Shoes of the Fisherman are much more distinguished and fascinating.

On the other hand, the Goldsmith music for the Prologue is (as mentioned in an above post) one of JG's greatest compositions. Extraordinary stuff.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2018 - 2:13 AM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Also, I have asked this question many times here and it has never been answered.
Was the North score recorded at Fox or in Italy?



If anyone other than Varese had issued the soundtrack CD, we'd probably know the answer to that question.

 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2018 - 6:52 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

If anyone other than Varese had issued the soundtrack CD, we'd probably know the answer to that question.

I'd have thought someone other than Varese would know the answer to this surprisingly impenetrable question?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2018 - 9:56 AM   
 By:   marcgothic   (Member)

I actually just got the blu-ray last week to replace the DVD. It is stunning. Great picture and wonderful music. Heston does have some resemblance to Michelangelo!

 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2018 - 10:08 AM   
 By:   Hank V   (Member)

When I first saw this film I was involved in a choir and we used to sing a lot of gregorian. I remember being immediately taken with North's music and not even noticing the prologue which screened before the movie. I consider this to be North's most captivating score and emotionally relates well what is happening on screen. One of the things which still sticks with me is North's ingenious use of a few bars of the Dies Irae when being gazed upon by the Pope to suggest Michelangelo's feeling at not being allowed to continue his painting. The vision in the clouds, the fall from the ceiling. Everything North composed here is first class and less jazz orientated than the other epics. It remains my favorite North.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2018 - 1:14 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Heston does have some resemblance to Michelangelo!


Burt Lancaster was reportedly the first actor interested in the leading role, but the studio also extended offers to Richard Burton and Marlon Brando before Charlton Heston signed on.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2018 - 1:35 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

If anyone other than Varese had issued the soundtrack CD, we'd probably know the answer to that question.
------------------------------------------
I'd have thought someone other than Varese would know the answer to this surprisingly impenetrable question?



CLEOPATRA (1963) was shot by Fox primarily in Italy, yet North recorded that score in Hollywood. Why would Fox do anything differently for THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY two years later?

 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2018 - 2:34 PM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

When I first saw this film I was involved in a choir and we used to sing a lot of gregorian. I remember being immediately taken with North's music and not even noticing the prologue which screened before the movie. I consider this to be North's most captivating score and emotionally relates well what is happening on screen. One of the things which still sticks with me is North's ingenious use of a few bars of the Dies Irae when being gazed upon by the Pope to suggest Michelangelo's feeling at not being allowed to continue his painting. The vision in the clouds, the fall from the ceiling. Everything North composed here is first class and less jazz orientated than the other epics. It remains my favorite North.


Hey there's a fan, cool! I just didn't think of that score the way I do about Cleopatra, or even the 2001 rejected score. To me the latter two are North's elite compositions.

But that's just me. I'll probably watch the movie again (your opinion might rub off on me the more I watch it lol!).

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2018 - 2:40 PM   
 By:   paul rossen   (Member)

To me the A&TE is Alex North's most conventional epic score. And I have always enjoyed it from its humble LP days to the Varese Club release. I do not include the Goldsmith rerecording since it is imo quite unlistenable.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2018 - 2:49 PM   
 By:   Brianmcb   (Member)

I'm surprised that there are no fans of Mr Goldsmith's recording of Mr North's score. I for one enjoy it immensely.

 
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