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It turns out they did run EMI’s proprietary digital recorder on at least one of the Jedi sessions, taking a split-feed of the live mix. However, it was probably never used.
Ah, you must be THE Chris Malone! Thanks for all your hard work, I was just about to re-read your article "Recording the Star Wars Saga" to see if I could glean information about the sources.
This note makes a bit of sense as I believe only the European / West Germany pressings by Polygram's RSO label for RETURN OF THE JEDI had the red logo in the upper right corner of the CD booklet and stated "Digital Recording". On the spine of the CD is another red label reading "Digital Stereo" and the front of the CD is red. I wonder if they did try it out for that European release of the CD?
The RSO/Polydor CDs present the original LP mixes and (I think) come from the multitrack goody reels. The panning of instruments is unique. That said, STAR WARS is a mushy mix with poor stereo separation and highs and lows rolled off for the LP's more limited dynamic range. EMPIRE is similar but with slightly better dynamics. JEDI is about as good as that score has ever sounded and was originally marketed as a "Digital Recording," but that may not be accurate.
I could be wrong, but the 2018 album remasters sound to my ears like the RCA/Sony release edited to match (approximately) the edits of Williams's original LP assemblies. The original LPs used alternate takes here and there so the new edits aren't perfect.
I don't have the RSO versions of the CDs which I assumed would be the same as the Polydor (they were just the European versions), but I can't confirm.
The 2018 album remasters are the same track presentation as the LPs, but I don't know if they used the same sources or if they did indeed pull from later masters.
Since they are the releases that so far seem to have the greatest difference in mixes, I'd be really curious to hear from whoever worked on it how and why it ended up as it did.
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Ah, you must be THE Chris Malone! Thanks for all your hard work, I was just about to re-read your article "Recording the Star Wars Saga" to see if I could glean information about the sources.
Thanks!
I have collected a significant amount more original research and professionally learned a lot since collating that stuff back in 2005. And, of course, a lot has happened in the Star Wars universe itself—three additional John Williams scored films for starters!
I have vacillated between taking it down permanently and significantly expanding upon the content (with corrections!).
What is a little disheartening is how some of this document—including some my own unique mistakes that are now considered correct—has ended up verbatim in published books and one music studio’s web site without any acknowledgement. So, I’m inclined to shut-up! C'est la vie!
Chris
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I have collected a significant amount more original research and professionally learned a lot since collating that stuff back in 2005. And, of course, a lot has happened in the Star Wars universe itself—three additional John Williams scored films for starters!
I have vacillated between taking it down permanently and significantly expanding upon the content (with corrections!).
What is a little disheartening is how some of this document—including some my own unique mistakes that are now considered correct—has ended up verbatim in published books and one music studio’s web site without any acknowledgement.
Yes, that is quite rude and unprofessional of people to not ask your permission or at least cite your work, before including it in official releases of their own. You clearly put in a lot of work, researching and conducting interviews, and bringing your own expertise as well.
For my say, I do hope you keep working on the document and can just put in those update annotations for whenever you modify things. Reading through it again it is massively helpful for me as I try to strategize further listening comparisons. I'm also seeing that it looks like what I've been doing is essentially the same thing as your "30th Anniversary Listening Test" with Eric Tomlinson!
For my own edification I just finished making a flow diagram of all the recordings (which I'm happy to share the work-in-progress), based on the info in your paper, as I'm looking to have a clear overview of what changed on a technical level across all the releases, and visually track what CD releases corresponded to which masters.
One of the most helpful things I discovered on re-read is your chart of TESB and marking which songs were Eric Tomlinson's 24-track backup tape mixes.
All of this to say I find your document very helpful and I hope you continue to do the work and that people give you credit as well!
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I’ve read in various places online that some of the tracks for the Star Wars soundtrack in the anthology boxset used takes that were different from the original LP. Does anyone know all the tracks that used these alternate takes? I’m just curious how much this happened on the Star Wars disc.
This issue only affected the first disc, correct? I believe I read that the discs for Empire and Jedi in the anthology used the correct takes.
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Posted: |
May 25, 2022 - 11:16 AM
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By: |
EdG
(Member)
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I’ve read in various places online that some of the tracks for the Star Wars soundtrack in the anthology boxset used takes that were different from the original LP. Does anyone know all the tracks that used these alternate takes? I’m just curious how much this happened on the Star Wars disc.
This issue only affected the first disc, correct? I believe I read that the discs for Empire and Jedi in the anthology used the correct takes.
Chris Malone wrote the following 10 years ago. More information MAY have come to light since then, but this is what we understood as of 2012:
"For the first time Star Wars utilised the actual film mixes, prepared by Eric Tomlinson, sourced from two-track tapes that contained each take recorded for every cue. From these, the take that predominately matched the film was selected for inclusion in the box set. The tapes presented details obscured from the original album – a wider stereo spread was immediately evident as was a greater sense of presence and an extended frequency response. . .
The Star Wars score was assembled to match the sequence of the double-LP without performing the intra-cue trims made for the original album. In more recent years the Star Wars disc was criticised for utilising “all the wrong takes” when in reality this is often not the case. For example: all of “Mouse Robot” is identical to the original release; the first 1:05 of “Rescue of the Princess” is identical; and only the last 17 seconds of “The Robot Auction” differ from the film. . .
Any differences most certainly did not come about through carelessness. “Given the fact that we had no paperwork to work from other then the slates to go by, plus only about a week to assemble each one of the one four CD’s,” clarified Ford A. Thaxton, who sequenced and assembled the discs, “I’d say it turned out far better then anyone involved could have hoped for.”
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I’ve read in various places online that some of the tracks for the Star Wars soundtrack in the anthology boxset used takes that were different from the original LP. Does anyone know all the tracks that used these alternate takes? I’m just curious how much this happened on the Star Wars disc.
This issue only affected the first disc, correct? I believe I read that the discs for Empire and Jedi in the anthology used the correct takes.
Chris Malone wrote the following 10 years ago. More information MAY have come to light since then, but this is what we understood as of 2012:
"For the first time Star Wars utilised the actual film mixes, prepared by Eric Tomlinson, sourced from two-track tapes that contained each take recorded for every cue. From these, the take that predominately matched the film was selected for inclusion in the box set. The tapes presented details obscured from the original album – a wider stereo spread was immediately evident as was a greater sense of presence and an extended frequency response. . .
The Star Wars score was assembled to match the sequence of the double-LP without performing the intra-cue trims made for the original album. In more recent years the Star Wars disc was criticised for utilising “all the wrong takes” when in reality this is often not the case. For example: all of “Mouse Robot” is identical to the original release; the first 1:05 of “Rescue of the Princess” is identical; and only the last 17 seconds of “The Robot Auction” differ from the film. . .
Any differences most certainly did not come about through carelessness. “Given the fact that we had no paperwork to work from other then the slates to go by, plus only about a week to assemble each one of the one four CD’s,” clarified Ford A. Thaxton, who sequenced and assembled the discs, “I’d say it turned out far better then anyone involved could have hoped for.”
Thanks. Yeah, I remember reading that. I also remember reading somewhere that there was a wrong take used in the last track, The Throne Room / End Titles. I was just curious if someone actually examined the entire album and found every instance where a take was used that was different from the original album.
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