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 Posted:   Sep 10, 2018 - 9:43 AM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

Just out of curiosity, did John Barry ever comment on Nic Raine's recording of RAISE THE TITANIC? Do we even have a second hand report of his reaction to it?

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2018 - 10:34 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

I've never heard a reaction to Raise The Titanic myself.

I heard he was not enamoured with the Bond Back In Action recordings, but I can't remember where I got that from. I understand he felt those albums had not been prepared carefully enough.

Bear in mind that when Silva Screen first embarked on recording John Barry's work anew, they originally wanted John himself to conduct the new recordings of his old work, but he would only work with orchestras that were out of their budgetary reach and wanted days of recording time on each album, which they could also not afford. These recordings had to be made on a budget that precluded his way of working.

I have to say, though, that while John Barry might have taken more time over recording his work, with more rehearsal time and being more particular*, I doubt he would have been interested in creating complete soundalike recordings of things like The Last Valley and Raise The Titanic. I fancy that if he'd done them, they'd have sounded more like concert versions than recreations of the original scores. Like the Somewhere In Time album.

(* John Barry had a reputation for being very particular in the studio. sometimes doing so many takes of pieces to get the nuances exactly to his taste, that sometimes the players lost enthusiasm for what they were playing.)

Cheers

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2018 - 10:44 AM   
 By:   villagardens553   (Member)

I recall--and my memory could be faulty and I think I got this info from Geoff Leonard--that Silva wanted Barry to do three albums of re-recordings of suites and themes, not complete scores. One of he three was to be choral/historical. I can't recall the themes of the other two, though I do have notes/letters I can rummage through. One of the themes may have been Bond. This all pre-dated Moviola.

Geoff, can you confirm and clarify?

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2018 - 10:54 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

Yes you are right, the original conversation was originally about suites and themes. But if he'd have done those, I have no doubt they would have wanted him to continue when they moved on to complete scores. Whether he'd have continued is a different question. As it happens, all academic.

Moviola was basically a recording of the concert arrangements prepared by Nic Raine for the abandoned Seville concerts. The first Silva Screen album in the series, The Classic John Barry, definitely came out after Moviola, although the conversations with JB could very easily have been before.

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2018 - 11:42 AM   
 By:   Geoffers   (Member)

Just out of curiosity, did John Barry ever comment on Nic Raine's recording of RAISE THE TITANIC? Do we even have a second hand report of his reaction to it?

"That was kind of surprising. I did enjoy doing that score, although the movie didn't get the audience they thought they were going to get. But there was some interesting stuff in that movie. Take the idea of that story, forget about the movie – just the idea of going down there and bringing this historic thing back up to the world; that alone is fascinating! You could write a musical suite on the emotions of that, without a movie. It's an interesting, haunting theme of a past generation, of something that happened in the world, in the history books. The mind jumps all over those very fertile thoughts of what that would be like, before you actually get into the movie. It's very consoling to think that you wrote something that stands up, whatever that means! It must be something that stands the test of time, as music, or otherwise I don't think that record companies would be expending this money on the actual recording, artwork and promotion."

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2018 - 4:35 PM   
 By:   Adm Naismith   (Member)

Well, I liked it.

Initially, I didn't realize it was a re-recording. It just sounded like Barry.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2018 - 6:17 PM   
 By:   jfallon   (Member)

Love this score. Maybe my fav Barry. So lucky to at least have the re-recording.

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2018 - 8:57 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

"That was kind of surprising. I did enjoy doing that score, although the movie didn't get the audience they thought they were going to get. But there was some interesting stuff in that movie. Take the idea of that story, forget about the movie – just the idea of going down there and bringing this historic thing back up to the world; that alone is fascinating! You could write a musical suite on the emotions of that, without a movie. It's an interesting, haunting theme of a past generation, of something that happened in the world, in the history books. The mind jumps all over those very fertile thoughts of what that would be like, before you actually get into the movie. It's very consoling to think that you wrote something that stands up, whatever that means! It must be something that stands the test of time, as music, or otherwise I don't think that record companies would be expending this money on the actual recording, artwork and promotion."


Hey, thanks for that. Mind if I ask where it came from?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2018 - 9:41 PM   
 By:   Alex Klein   (Member)

I must say 'Raise the Titanic' is near the bottom of my list regarding Barry's best work. The underwater material is too monotonous and repetitive (even by Barry's standards!), and the main themes sound like something he could've written in his sleep.

I believe Barry was not very fond of this score himself: he once confessed he 'dug it up' to consider re-recording a suite of it but ultimately abandoned the idea because he thought the music was not strong enough.

Alex

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2018 - 10:10 PM   
 By:   villagardens553   (Member)

The conversations Barry had with Silva definitely pre-dated Moviola. My guess is that the commercial and critical success that Barry had with Somewhere in Time, Out of Africa, and Dances With Wolves (the latter on Sony) prompted Sony to sign Barry for Moviola, thus negating any further talks with Silva. Silva, without Barry as an artist, proceeded to move forward with a series of recordings of his work.

 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2018 - 12:23 AM   
 By:   Steve H   (Member)

At first glance a Barry score might seem one of the easiest to re-record but this couldn't be further from the truth. Barry's music is all about timings and emphisis on certain beats and bars. As well as subtle changes to those obligatory repeated phrases. The sound he gets from his horns alone seems difficult to recreate on some of the best re-recordings. This is why a lot of those re-recordings leave me cold. This one was no exception. It may never happen, but I'll hope upon hope that someday those original tapes will be found.

 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2018 - 1:42 AM   
 By:   Geoffers   (Member)

"That was kind of surprising. I did enjoy doing that score, although the movie didn't get the audience they thought they were going to get. But there was some interesting stuff in that movie. Take the idea of that story, forget about the movie – just the idea of going down there and bringing this historic thing back up to the world; that alone is fascinating! You could write a musical suite on the emotions of that, without a movie. It's an interesting, haunting theme of a past generation, of something that happened in the world, in the history books. The mind jumps all over those very fertile thoughts of what that would be like, before you actually get into the movie. It's very consoling to think that you wrote something that stands up, whatever that means! It must be something that stands the test of time, as music, or otherwise I don't think that record companies would be expending this money on the actual recording, artwork and promotion."


Hey, thanks for that. Mind if I ask where it came from?


I have a feeling it was part of an interview with Fordy Thaxton, but I could be mistaken! I'll try and confirm this in due course.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2018 - 2:23 AM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

I believe Barry was not very fond of this score himself: he once confessed he 'dug it up' to consider re-recording a suite of it but ultimately abandoned the idea because he thought the music was not strong enough.

I think he considered it for that Moviola 2 album, but decided against it for those reasons. Which is a bit of a pity, as I think it would have sat well on the album. I guess it would have been similar to that rerecording on the Silva Classic John Barry, which I do like. Always seemed a nice compliment to the original Moviola album that one, I still give it a listen from time to time.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2018 - 5:40 AM   
 By:   martyn.crosthwaite   (Member)

At first glance a Barry score might seem one of the easiest to re-record but this couldn't be further from the truth. Barry's music is all about timings and emphisis on certain beats and bars. As well as subtle changes to those obligatory repeated phrases. The sound he gets from his horns alone seems difficult to recreate on some of the best re-recordings. This is why a lot of those re-recordings leave me cold. This one was no exception. It may never happen, but I'll hope upon hope that someday those original tapes will be found.

What you say is very true however I actually enjoy the Silva recordings of Raise the Titanic , The Betsy and Mister Moses and the interpretation on each by Nic Raine is pretty good considering he had hardly any access to the original manuscripts . The 2 Moviola CD's that Barry himself arranged and conducted send me to sleep.....instantly and in my opinion were a missed opportunity for him to perform in a more adventurous manner . Every track just sounds the same on those 2 CD's.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2018 - 7:44 AM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

Interesting. I agree that Moviola 2 seems a missed opportunity, with a Bond Suite and Dances Suite which to my mind appeared a bit redundant by then. But the first album I think is great, as it was always meant to be a romantic, symphonic listen which it surely is with some of his best known work. It sold a lot of copies too, whereas I'm not sure the second is even in print anymore.
I also like the majority of the Silva Barry albums over the years.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2018 - 8:00 AM   
 By:   villagardens553   (Member)

I think the first Moviola is a great album and perfectly captures the lush, symphonic style that Barry adopted in the latter half of his career in much the same way that, collectively, the three CBS collection albums that Barry re-recorded in the sixties showcases that offbeat instrumentation vibe that Barry favored during his London years.

The second Moviola album is a mixed bag. Zulu sounds great, though; those tympani!

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2018 - 10:24 AM   
 By:   Alex Klein   (Member)



What you say is very true however I actually enjoy the Silva recordings of Raise the Titanic , The Betsy and Mister Moses and the interpretation on each by Nic Raine is pretty good considering he had hardly any access to the original manuscripts . The 2 Moviola CD's that Barry himself arranged and conducted send me to sleep.....instantly and in my opinion were a missed opportunity for him to perform in a more adventurous manner . Every track just sounds the same on those 2 CD's.


Ironically enough, it was Raine who orchestrated the Moviola albums and not Barry.

Alex

 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2018 - 12:29 PM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

At first glance a Barry score might seem one of the easiest to re-record but this couldn't be further from the truth. Barry's music is all about timings and emphisis on certain beats and bars. As well as subtle changes to those obligatory repeated phrases. The sound he gets from his horns alone seems difficult to recreate on some of the best re-recordings. This is why a lot of those re-recordings leave me cold. This one was no exception. It may never happen, but I'll hope upon hope that someday those original tapes will be found.

There is a lot of truth to that. Silva Screen's Raise The Titanic isn't a perfect soundalike, but it's damn close and I play it a lot.

Cheers

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2018 - 12:36 PM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

I'm unable to check the CD at the moment, was it Raise the Titanic you wrote the booklet notes for?

 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2018 - 12:42 PM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

I'm unable to check the CD at the moment, was it Raise the Titanic you wrote the booklet notes for?

No, Walkabout was the one I did. :-)

 
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