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 Posted:   Dec 12, 2018 - 1:40 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Sadly the post-2005 Who producers see the character as comic in nature full stop, and she seems to channel just that part of the character. She is for me too light and breezy.

I'd say they've been good at balancing the more comic interpretations with the more 'serious'. Eccleston and Capaldi on the serious side, Whittaker and Smith on the comical side. And Tennant (the best of the lot) somewhere inbetween.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2018 - 3:03 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

You see, I think there is a generic feel to all New Series Doctors. As if Russell T Davies right at the start in 2005 wanted to tick boxes x,y and z for some sort of template that each actor must include, and as he oversaw the first two Doctors of the new era, the third and fourth followed suit as if Steven Moffat kept to that same pattern. There's a lot of goofiness mixed in there with them all, but they get serious. My feeling is that JW has none of the serious side that all those had at times. It may be as a result of the no-such-thing-as-evil threat-less plots, who knows?

On the face of it Eccleston and Capaldi seemed more serious, because Capaldi started out that way, and Eccleston's strength was that he had more anger and fire when it came to the crunch. But as Eccles himself said he wasn't the best when it came to the comic side, which is an aspect he wanted to explore as he felt he hadn't done much of that in his career up to then. He does quite a few guffaws and grins and leaping around at times. Capaldi was doing just fine until Kill the Moon and Time Heist where there were already signs of softening him up. He started to do what he said he couldn't do - "what David and Matt do".

Now when it comes to humour much of that will be in the scripts, overseen by those showrunners to make sure they stick to the format, and there for the actor to interpret. It was said at one time that when Tennant did different takes the directors often went for (and might have been asked to go for) the goofiest performance.

If we take the first ever four from the Classic Series, what I think of as the 'proper' Doctors (with that generic thing evolving throughout the eighties with the middle and middling not-so-classic Doctors), the ones which really set up the character, then I don't think ANY of them do anything their predecessors did. Although on initial viewing in 1974 I thought Tom Baker was doing 'a Patrick Troughton', ie a humorous performance, I came to realise he was quite different. So what I see in those first four is genuine contrast. With each other. William Hartnell is gruff and crotchety, Patrick Troughton is clowny and pixie-like, Jon Pertwee is a no-nonsense and straightforwardly serious heroic figure, and Tom swings back to some dotty bohemian. This isn't to say the First and Third didn't have a softer side, but they didn't clown at all. Even Pertwee's dragging up in The Green Death was functional and lasted mere seconds!

And you see my favourite Doctor is Pertwee as I look up more to serious hero, than a clown. And for me JW is as far away from that as we can get. Prejudiced maybe, as I don't see The Doctor as a female any more than I do James Bond (eh, Barbara?). To start with she could quite easily be written that way, so it's not her fault possibly, but there are female actors (can we say actresses now?) out there with gravitas.

ANYWAY! To stay on-topic to SOME extent, I will say that the theme is rather nice. We have a good new composer it's true. I wish the BBC promoted Murray Gold's music as well.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2018 - 3:11 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Well, I agree with your rundown of the first doctors. Although the first requires kudos for being the first (and what an eccentric person he was in real life too), he was a bit too grouchy and detached for me to have any kind of emotional investment in him. That, plus the überpedagogical/educational/PC approach of the series at the time, of course.

For a series like this, with the target audience in mind, I think it requires a dynamic doctor whose "scatterbrain" comes to life in both serious and comical manner.

I think we still haven't seen the best of Whittaker's "serious" or confrontational side. There are glimpses of it in the current season, like the one that took place in Norway(!), and I think it will be explored further in subsequent seasons when old arch enemies of the past are bound to resurface. Too bad that, after the New Year special, we have to wait all the way to 2020 to see it!

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2018 - 3:45 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

Well, I agree with your rundown of the first doctors. Although the first requires kudos for being the first (and what an eccentric person he was in real life too), he was a bit too grouchy and detached for me to have any kind of emotional investment in him. That, plus the überpedagogical/educational/PC approach of the series at the time, of course.

For a series like this, with the target audience in mind, I think it requires a dynamic doctor whose "scatterbrain" comes to life in both serious and comical manner.

I think we still haven't seen the best of Whittaker's "serious" or confrontational side. There are glimpses of it in the current season, like the one that took place in Norway(!), and I think it will be explored further in subsequent seasons when old arch enemies of the past are bound to resurface. Too bad that, after the New Year special, we have to wait all the way to 2020 to see it!


Ha! I bet I wasn't the only one who thought of you with the Norway one..

To be fair, despite what I said about those first four the first is the one I took longest to warm to in recent years. Reason being, that although I was watching before he stopped I was VERY young and it has to be said I really only remember the monsters. I was fully aware by Troughton's time though, and then 'my' Doctor was Pertwee. The right age to see the lead character as my hero etc.

There is a chance JW might impress in the NYD Special because I believe the oldest of foes will surface.. So I'll have more than the TARDIS exterior to remind me of better times!

 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2018 - 5:21 AM   
 By:   spook   (Member)

I've been watching Doctor Who since the tail end of the Pertwee era and I suppose my Doctor would be Tom Baker as thats where my memories are most ( in saying that my favourite is Troughton.. wish there was more survived!)
Being a devoted fan all along the way and loving the re-boot started by Eccleston it pains me even more to see the complete crap it has turned into. I can't believe how boring it all is and the PC flag is waved SOOOO much in every episode it makes me want to scream. I'm sad to see one of my favourite shows turning into ..THIS. Happy for the folks that have found it and enjoyed it but..its not Doctor Who!
HOWEVER... I do like the different musical take. I know its more ambient and less instantly impressive but I think this will be a good stand-alone listen and I'm looking forward to hearing it ..without having to sit through all the visual dross that accompanies it! :-)

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2018 - 11:18 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

I've been watching Doctor Who since the tail end of the Pertwee era and I suppose my Doctor would be Tom Baker as thats where my memories are most ( in saying that my favourite is Troughton.. wish there was more survived!)
Being a devoted fan all along the way and loving the re-boot started by Eccleston it pains me even more to see the complete crap it has turned into. I can't believe how boring it all is and the PC flag is waved SOOOO much in every episode it makes me want to scream. I'm sad to see one of my favourite shows turning into ..THIS. Happy for the folks that have found it and enjoyed it but..its not Doctor Who!
HOWEVER... I do like the different musical take. I know its more ambient and less instantly impressive but I think this will be a good stand-alone listen and I'm looking forward to hearing it ..without having to sit through all the visual dross that accompanies it! :-)


I watched during the Hartnells, not really remembering them with the lead actor, since I was four before my earliest memory, and then Batman came along and stopped me in my tracks.

I clearly remember one uncle saying "it's not the same" later mainly because (as I know now) that it was suddenly a different actor. BUT I did see the all-important episode of Tenth Planet with the Cybermen walking along in the snow simply because a completely different uncle couldn't get the Batman channel on his telly! Honest to goodness some folks here still had dials for the channels!

I settled down with the Troughtons eventually with the mega-classic Evil of the Daleks, though again in terms of cast I remember mainly Jamie McCrimmon (for all you Outlander fans) and both Victoria and later Zoe.

And eventually in 1970 came the great Pertwee. And suddenly I was watching for the hero of the title.

But yes. Gosh almighty, if ONLY the CLASSIC Troughtons still existed. POWER OF THE DALEKS, EVIL OF THE DALEKS, THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMEN, THE ICE WARRIORS, FURY FROM THE DEEP and THE WHEEL IN SPACE.

Every single one of those is an absolute classic for SO MANY REASONS. I would trade the entire list of Doctor Who from it's revival in 2005 for that lot. And yes, I do mean that.

And of course in those days the music was minimalist so it's nice if they've gone back to that...

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2018 - 11:48 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

It all depends how we got into this thing, doesn't it?

I think I told this to Paul when we shared a few beers in London a couple of years ago, but my path into Who is rather different.

I remember seeing a couple of episodes on Sky or Super Channel back in the mid 80s (probably Tom Baker episodes in syndication), and -- even as a young kid -- dismissed it as campy, dated silliness that held no interest for a child of the 80s weaned on Transformers, Inspector Gadget and Masters of the Universe. Then fastforward to 2005, when I gave the reboot a chance despite my childhood qualms. Surprise, surprise, it managed to hook me after a few episodes, and after getting accustomed to the "tone". Then, a couple of seasons into the Tennant years, I decided to see EVERYTHING Who since the dawn of time -- just to have all the references in order.

It took me several months, but eventually I managed to get through everything available (even audio-only episodes for lost episodes), and was up-to-date. So I hold no particular connection to the pre-2005 doctors, nostalgic or otherwise. It was all approached from a non-British guy in his mid 30s. I guess that's why I'm more reluctant to go into the "everything was so much better before" train of thought in relation to Who.

 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2018 - 12:10 PM   
 By:   litefoot   (Member)

But yes. Gosh almighty, if ONLY the CLASSIC Troughtons still existed. POWER OF THE DALEKS, EVIL OF THE DALEKS, THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMEN, THE ICE WARRIORS, FURY FROM THE DEEP and THE WHEEL IN SPACE.

Every single one of those is an absolute classic for SO MANY REASONS. I would trade the entire list of Doctor Who from it's revival in 2005 for that lot. And yes, I do mean that.


A lot of fans (myself included) subscribe to the belief that Philip Morris recovered those films from Hong Kong and various African countries some considerable time ago, but hasn't returned them to the BBC because his demands have not been met. Unfortunately, there is no concrete proof.

 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2018 - 3:26 PM   
 By:   spook   (Member)

But yes. Gosh almighty, if ONLY the CLASSIC Troughtons still existed. POWER OF THE DALEKS, EVIL OF THE DALEKS, THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMEN, THE ICE WARRIORS, FURY FROM THE DEEP and THE WHEEL IN SPACE.

A lot of fans (myself included) subscribe to the belief that Philip Morris recovered those films from Hong Kong and various African countries some considerable time ago, but hasn't returned them to the BBC because his demands have not been met. Unfortunately, there is no concrete proof.


I wonder if we could crowd fund some ‘ransom’ money! :-)

 
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