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 Posted:   Jun 14, 2004 - 7:51 PM   
 By:   bondo321   (Member)

I just rewatched this film, and I couldn't help but notice how similar Beltrami's music was to Ottman's. I've heard Ottman's entire score on CD, and it doesn't sound a whole lot different from the Mimic and Scream cues that were tacked onto the film as a replacement (quite jarringly too). Why did they even bother? (same question for The Faculty)

 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2004 - 8:09 PM   
 By:   scoringsessions   (Member)

They ended up reshuffling the placement of John's cues to the point where they needed additional music to "bridge" the gaps.

Beltrami's music fom SCREAM and MIMIC had been used in the temp score, and they asked Marco (who had a very good relationship with Dimension/Miramax) to rework the music and remove the themes.

It was easier for them to do that than ask Ottman to rewrite his score (as he wasn't happy with the sitation anyways, I doubt he'd have done so willingly!)

Dan

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2004 - 9:40 PM   
 By:   bondo321   (Member)

Thanks for the info. Did Beltrami write any new material for H20?

 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2004 - 9:48 PM   
 By:   scoringsessions   (Member)

Thanks for the info. Did Beltrami write any new material for H20?

My understanding is that he just modified his existing cues to fit.

Dan

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2004 - 10:40 PM   
 By:   M.Mushashi   (Member)

I just rewatched this film, and I couldn't help but notice how similar Beltrami's music was to Ottman's.

You mean except for the improved voice leading and orchestration right?

I wouldn't compare Ottman who's a hobbyist composer to a real formally trained one like Beltrami, regardless of their output in Hollywood.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2004 - 11:47 PM   
 By:   bondo321   (Member)

Obviously every composer has a unique voice. But listening to their respective horror scores at a glance, they have a similar style (use of female choir, voices, similar use of brass, similar use of percussion).

*I'm a MediaVentures fan Mushashi, believe me when I say I can tell composers apart. wink

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2004 - 2:08 PM   
 By:   Hercule Platini   (Member)

I'm giving up on Ottman. Not a note of his does anything for me. Seriously, I get more out of Trevor Rabin.

It doesn't feel like music from a film. It feels like music that's supposed to sound as if it might come from a film; music that's supposed to sound like film music.

NP: PLANET OF THE VAMPIRES (Gino Marinuzzi Jr)

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2004 - 4:17 PM   
 By:   bondo321   (Member)

X2 was his culmination of his talents, and I think he'll improve on it with X3. I'm not too keen on his other scores on CD though - in the films, they work well (particularly Gothika)

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2011 - 8:34 PM   
 By:   Scott Atkins   (Member)

Does anyone know the full listing of Beltrami tracks used in H20? I wanted to create a CD which has Ottman's PORTRAIT OF TERROR CD and throw the Beltrami tracks on as "bonus" tracks. I know that "Tatum's Torture" and parts of "The Cue From Hell" from SCREAM are also used in H20. What cues from MIMIC were used?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2011 - 11:37 PM   
 By:   Tobias   (Member)

he wasn't happy with the sitation anyways, I doubt he'd have done so willingly!

Dan



So with that in mind I always thought that it was a little bit strange that Ottman agreed to work with H20`s director Steve Miner on Lake Placid. I really think it is odd because if I had been in Ottman`s shoes and been rejected on a film and then the director of that film invites me to score his next movie I would have turned him down but thankfully Ottman did not do that. I say thankfully because to my ears Lake Placid is his best score. I just love the Main Titles (among other great cues).

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2011 - 12:00 AM   
 By:   Mike_H   (Member)

It wasn't Steve Miner's decision to axe most of Ottman's score...it was studio brass. I was in contact with John a year or so after it happened. Apparently, a poorly mixed dub of the score was sent in haste to Miramax brass and they decided the score was too 'thoughtful'. Miner was off on another picture already and it was up to Editor Patrick Lussier and Beltrami to piece things together.

I think Ottman's original score is gorgeous and it's always been my favorite of his. It's incredibly thematic and Herrmann-esque. It's a shame it ended the way it did.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2011 - 5:58 AM   
 By:   Fink   (Member)

he wasn't happy with the sitation anyways, I doubt he'd have done so willingly!

Dan



So with that in mind I always thought that it was a little bit strange that Ottman agreed to work with H20`s director Steve Miner on Lake Placid. I really think it is odd because if I had been in Ottman`s shoes and been rejected on a film and then the director of that film invites me to score his next movie I would have turned him down but thankfully Ottman did not do that. I say thankfully because to my ears Lake Placid is his best score. I just love the Main Titles (among other great cues).


Wel I heard that Steve Miner has nothing to do with it, it's the producers who wanted a more "modern" horror score, in the style of Beltrami because his music was a success in Scream and Mimic. I love these scores, but having Ottman's score would have been terrific, since he really used halloween'sw theme here and there, and it really worked well! Damn producers!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2011 - 10:11 AM   
 By:   Mike_H   (Member)

Here's a neat comparison I found on youtube between Ottman's original cue and the tracked-in Scream cue.

Ottman used a lot of variations on Carpenter's "The Shape Stalks" and this is a great example of it here.


 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2011 - 10:18 AM   
 By:   Mike_H   (Member)





 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2011 - 1:09 PM   
 By:   JJComerford   (Member)

I wrote an article for FSM about this several years back and interviewed everyone concerned. Here's the link for subscribers: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/fsmonline/issue_detail_print.cfm?issID=32&page=2

Ottman sent me the cue sheets from BMI and ironically, the majority of the score in the final film is his, albeit heavily edited. Ottman's stuff amounts to about 36 minutes; Beltrami wrote about 7 minutes of original material as "bumper cues" to smooth out the transitions between Ottman's music and the other pretracked cues that were also used. (The pretracked cues added up to about 9 minutes.)

The cue sheets (included in the article, by the way) did list Beltrami's original cues as well as his preexisting cues, but they were listed only with slate numbers and not given actual titles. If memory serves, the same few bars from "Race to the Subway" from MIMIC were used two or three times. SCREAM, SCREAM 2, MIMIC and even the original HALLOWEEN score were all incorporated in the final edit.

The cue sheet is actually pretty fascinating to look at; many cues in the final film incorporate five or six different pieces from both Ottman and Beltrami, with some pieces sometimes as short as a few seconds. Generally speaking, I tend to side with the filmmaker's edict of "whatever helps the film", but this was a particularly disheartening case of a score being completely dismantled and edited into incoherence.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2011 - 2:27 PM   
 By:   Mike_H   (Member)

Thanks! I'm off to read the article and the cue sheets right now smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2011 - 8:30 PM   
 By:   Scott Atkins   (Member)

Thanks for some cool info and samples! I dusted off my Portrait of Terror CD and had forgotten that the tracks are not in the intended film order. Does anyone know what the film order on the CD would be?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2011 - 1:05 AM   
 By:   bondo321   (Member)

Just gave this film and score another whirl and as much as I should hate it, I really don't. It seems rather nostalgic now, of the Beltrami/Craven horror era of the late 90s. While I have and enjoy Ottman's "Portrait of Terror," I can't help but think that the producers were right to bring in Marco Beltrami. Upon looking at some of the comparison videos posted here, Beltrami's music is far more menacing and threatening than Ottman's whimsical take on horror (particularly the discover of the hanging girl's body in "Face to Face"). Don't get me wrong, I love both approaches, but Michael Myers has always been more terrifying than whimsical.

Question - Would any of you who have analyzed this score be kind enough to provide a list of which Beltrami cues are used? I don't have any in-depth knowledge of the Scream scores, but I'd like to make a film version score of H20 that combines Ottman's original and Beltrami's re-used scores. Thanks!!

 
 Posted:   Aug 12, 2014 - 9:06 AM   
 By:   Mike Skerritt   (Member)

Cross post from a thread in the non-film score forum (http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=103458&forumID=7&archive=0) - Scream Factory recently announced a complete HALLOWEEN box set for release on September 23, with every film in the series from every studio and TONS of bells and whistles.

One bell and whistle just announced is the inclusion of some scenes from H20 presented with Ottman's original score.

Full updated specs here: http://www.docterror.com/2014/08/new-release-update-halloween-curse-of.html?m=1

Pretty cool news!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 12, 2014 - 10:04 AM   
 By:   Mike_H   (Member)

That's great news! Hopefully it'll create interest in a full restore of the score in the film sometime in the next few years. I mean, they're finally releasing the original cut of Halloween 6 (which was a similar studio-mandated mangling), so I think anything is possible!

 
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