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 Posted:   Mar 31, 2001 - 7:44 AM   
 By:   Gunnar   (Member)

Is there anybody out there who could recommend Rosenman’s ‚Lord of the Rings‘? Or, to be more precise:

- Is it a ‚must-have‘?
- What other popular score could you liken it to?
- How's the sound quality?
- Would it be compatible with my taste if I usually buy Williams, don’t buy Zimmer and deny that I used to buy James horner?

As always, recommendations are always appreciated. You guys introduced my to Korngold, and I’m still grateful for that!

 Posted:   Mar 31, 2001 - 8:54 AM   
 By:   David Ferstat   (Member)

Yes, I'll gladly commence the (I hope) numerous responses by saying that I can unresevedly recommend this CD.

In specific:

I can't say that it's a must-have. But then, this is entertainment: NOTHING is a must-have.">
However, I consider it to be a particularly rich score, with some action cues easily matching anything that John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith have done.

What would I complare it to? Hmm ... that's a tough one. For some reason, Trevor Jones's score to "The Dark Crystal" comes to mind.

I can't comment on sound-quality; I don't have sufficiently well-trained ears. But I can't pick any problems with it.

If you buy John Williams scores, and (apparently) dislike Zimmer's then I'm presuming that you prefer a more traditional scoring and orchestrational approach.
On this basis, I'd certainly recommend this music, as I would also recommend John Debney's "CutThroat Island", and Danny Elfman's "Batman" and "Batman Returns".

David Ferstat

Check out:

Regularly updated!

 Posted:   Mar 30, 2001 - 10:22 PM   
 By:   SjONGBIrD   (Member)

Re: THE LORD OF THE RINGS (Leonard Rosenman)
Intrada -> GET IT!! Truly a great score - filled with majesty, menace, heroics, joy and wonder! To my ears - nobody composes like Rosenman - his sound is quite unique.
Lord Of The Rings was first released on a great double LP. The CD version is a remix of that great recording - with the cues placed in different (proper) order and with twelve minutes of score not placed on the original vinyl.
I'm a BIG fan of the movie - although it bombed at the box office and according to various articles on the film - was not exactly finished entirely when released!
The way Rosenman utilizes his chorus is fantastic. A large ensemble orchestra was used along with a chorus (singing a language Rosenman created for the score) and various techniques - like using a Rams Horn!
I find this score can be LARGE and intimate all at once!
I had already been a big fan of both Rosenman and Ralph Bakshi (WIZARDS) - and the combo of the two - well, it put me right - THERE!
Years later - Rosenman's STAR TREK - THE VOYAGE HOME would recall the sound of LORD OF THE RINGS for me.
When I really want to get lost in fantastical thought - I play this score - and Goldsmith's LEGEND (another excellent fantasy epic).
Highest rating a score could get from me!">
np~> THE LORD OF THE RINGS (Rosenman)

[This message has been edited by SjONGBIrD (edited 31 March 2001).]

 Posted:   Mar 30, 2001 - 11:23 PM   
 By:   Spacehunter   (Member)

There's already been a LORD OF THE RINGS film? I was under the impression the upcoming ones where the first time the novels had been turned into films. (And not since JURASSIC PARK and THE LOST WORLD have I so anticipated a film based on a book"> ).


 Posted:   Mar 30, 2001 - 11:32 PM   
 By:   SjONGBIrD   (Member)

Spacey -> you've not seen Ralph Bakshi's epic animated take on the Tolkien classic?!?
Go find it quick!! It was released theatrically in 1978 (I know a lot of you kids weren't born before the 80's on this board!) - like I mentioned up the thread - the film was not a big success. I've read articles about how Bakshi was intending (like Peter Jackson now) to film the whole trilogy - and financially it went belly up - er, down! I've always thought Bakshi's method of making animated films (shooting basically the story with LIVE ACTORS/ACTION - then animating and roto-scoping over the footage) is very interesting.
There was also THE HOBBIT (animated) made for TV - and I think the other story as well!
Check 'em out.">

[This message has been edited by SjONGBIrD (edited 31 March 2001).]

 Posted:   Mar 30, 2001 - 11:35 PM   
 By:   Spacehunter   (Member)

Well, no wonder I've never heard of it. It came out the year I was born.">

I'll look into it if I get the chance.

np ARMAGEDDON (I'm on a Rabin high today">)

 Posted:   Mar 30, 2001 - 11:52 PM   
 By:   SjONGBIrD   (Member)

suddenly - at nearly 40 years of age"> - I'm feeling way old, man!">
Spacey - I think you'll find the Bakshi film great good fun - and holds up pretty darn well. And the score - well, it's awsome!
I too am looking forward to the NEW 'Ring' trilogy - and Howard Shore's score(s). I am a bit disapointed to see that Mark Stetson (great efx dude - I worked with him on 2010 in '84) has dropped out of the production(s)!">

 Posted:   Mar 30, 2001 - 11:55 PM   
 By:   Spacehunter   (Member)

Don't worry, man. 40 ain't "old" in my book.">

If I remember correctly, I think a lot of Bakshi's animated stuff is somewhat adult-oriented, correct? So I assume LORD OF THE RINGS is different from his usual stuff and is more kid-oriented?


 Posted:   Mar 31, 2001 - 12:12 AM   
 By:   SjONGBIrD   (Member)

Yeah - I s'pose it is geared more to a 'general audience' - it's rated PG - still has its dark moments! Wait - now that I recall images in my has some pretty frightening scenes - with the Orks attacking - the Ringwraiths - Mordor - violent battles, and, I'd have to say it's NOT a 'kiddie' film at all!
All this chat about the film has me stoked all over again - I once had it on VHS - I should see if it's on DVD.
I hope you find a copy to view...get back to us and let us know what you think.
btw -> Bakshi's WIZARDS is way cool too - another PG, yet with its share of coolness a kid would dig! Then there's Bakshi's FRITZ THE CAT (based on the late great Robert Crumb comics!) - which was rated X when I saw it (I sneaked in - like I did a lot of films in the 60's and 70's - usually all the 'R' rated ones!)">

 Posted:   Mar 31, 2001 - 12:47 AM   
 By:   H. Rocco   (Member)

If you get the Intrada CD, which I heartily recommend, be prepared for the fact that the film's beautiful main theme is developed THROUGHOUT the score, not announced right at the start. Much of the score is dissonant, even repetitive (but what film score is not), more in line with the works of later composers inspired by Rosenman such as John Corigliano and Elliot Goldenthal. If you like anything they've done, you SHOULD love this. I think it's Leonard Rosenman's finest work for movies, and a crown jewel in any collection. (In its original double LP release, it was also one of the bestselling orchestral soundtracks of the 1970s.)

I don't know how you prefer to listen to albums, but for a first-timer, I'd start them off with the magnificent "Helm's Deep" and just play out the rest of the score to the end, THEN start at the beginning.

Hats off again to Intrada for making the CD sound so perfect and beautiful -- a thousand miles better than the ghastly double LP version.

NP: "The Five Sacred Trees" (John Williams)

 Posted:   Mar 31, 2001 - 1:29 AM   
 By:   SjONGBIrD   (Member)

Not at all meaning to pic nits with Rocco...but, the Intrada CD places the music in exactly the progression as intended and composed for the film by Rosenman (at least that's what Rosenman says in the liner notes!). The 'Main Theme' Rocco intimates is actually the 'final end title march' which was used as a 'reprise - at the beginning' of the original album - 'for commercial reasons'.
I haven't seen the film in many years - I don't remember a 'main title' sequence. Anyways - I'm all for hearing a score the way the composer intends and the filmmaker utilizes.
Many albums of scores used to place 'main themes' at the beginning of a recording - even though the actual film may not have lead off that way itself!
I appreciate what H. Rocco is getting at - but for my two cents...put that disc in and just sit back and enjoy it the way it is!">
np~> BASIC INSTINCT (Jerry Goldsmith)

[This message has been edited by SjONGBIrD (edited 31 March 2001).]

 Posted:   Mar 31, 2001 - 1:37 AM   
 By:   Marian Schedenig   (Member)

Is it a ‚must-have‘?

For me, Rosenman's Lord of the Rings is one of the very best works ever composed. It depends on your tastes, of course, but if you like it, then it's a must-have.

Would it be compatible with my taste if I usually buy Williams, don’t buy Zimmer and deny that I used to buy James horner?

I usually buy Williams, don't buy Zimmer, and used to buy (and still do sometimse) James Horner.

You guys introduced my to Korngold, and I’m still grateful for that!

I love Korngold!">

What other popular score could you liken it to?

Hard to tell. i think it's been described above very well. It's very similar to the other Rosenman scores I've heard, meaning that some of the snippets of his Apes scores that I've heard sound like they're taken straight out of LOTR (of course, they were composed earlier), and that there's a similar piece in the main themes of LOTR and ST 4, which could seamlessly combine the two works.

How's the sound quality?

On the original album, horrible. On the Intrada re-release it's very good, and in fact so much better that some tracks sound totally different. I never noticed the Blaster Beam on the original CD.

The original release had a shorter version of the main theme march at the beginning of the CD, but the Intrada release wisely removes this piece, at it was not in the film and the whole score works by slowly developing the main theme and only revealing it in it's fully developed form at the very end.

The Intrada release also contains liner notes and a short analysis of each track by Rosenman himself, in his typical self-confident (to express it kindly) but informative style.

In short: This is one of the best, most amazing, most inspiring and most complex scores you'll ever hear.

As for the film, it's really bad, but I still love it because with all the things they did wrong, it's still Lord of the Rings (though butchered). The film stops in the middle of the story, but it introduced me to the novel, and I still enjoy watching it - WHERE'S A DVD RELEASE!?

NP: The Final Conflict (Jerry Goldsmith)

 Posted:   Mar 31, 2001 - 1:41 AM   
 By:   Marian Schedenig   (Member)

SjONGBIrD, the film starts with a brief overview of the history of the Ring (like it is explained in the chapter "The Shadow of the Past" in the book), which is underscored by "History of the Ring" - which is the first track on the album.

And I think Rocco was trying exactly the same as you.">

 Posted:   Mar 31, 2001 - 1:56 AM   
 By:   H. Rocco   (Member)

Danke schoen, Dutzfreund">

I'm well aware that the score is presented chronologically on the Intrada disc -- and I really do worry that if a neophyte is made to sit through the entire album from start to finish, he or she will want to throw the thing across the room within half an hour. The last few cues are, to me, among the album's most powerful, and all back-to-back. If you can get someone to fall in love with "Helm's Deep" and the "End Credits" first, then appreciating the rest shouldn't be as big a problem at all. But the gloomy, murky nature of most of the picture is inevitably echoed by the music, and I just think that someone unused to the film or the soundtrack might be unnecessarily turned off.

I say all this having no idea of what Gunnar's stamina, likes or dislikes genuinely are.">

 Posted:   Mar 31, 2001 - 2:35 AM   
 By:   Marian Schedenig   (Member)

I always find it amazing that I was very fond of the main theme, and the music when Theoden faces the Orc army at the end of the film, when I was about 11, or perhaps 12, years old. Only several years later would I discover film music, but the original CD release was an album I bought as soon as I could find it. That was still a long time before I'd hear the name "Goldenthal", and not the type of music I'd expect to have liked at that time, but I always found the score amazing.

NP: Hellraiser (Christopher Young)

 Posted:   Mar 31, 2001 - 3:11 AM   
 By:   SjONGBIrD   (Member)

Your point is well taken Rocco - yours too Marian.
Glad to know LOTR has a good following here.
I aquired an LP of the original album once - 'cause a friend was 'throwing it away'!!
I never found the LP to sound bad though - I thought it was a rather good pressing. Of course - back then - just putting a needle onto a vinyl groove and getting sound was a minor miracle to me!
And btw - both of you - in my view - are two of the most outstanding posters here on this board.
Dig it!">
Indeed - where IS the DVD release of this film!?!


 Posted:   Mar 31, 2001 - 3:20 AM   
 By:   Marian Schedenig   (Member)

I don't know about the sound quality of the LP, but the original CD sounds like it was recorded by a 30-piece orchestra in a 3m² room.">

Although I like the way the harp stands out in "The Journey Begins" on the first release, it's much louder than on the Intrada version.

Originally posted by SjONGBIrD:
And btw - both of you - in my view - are two of the most outstanding posters here on this board.

Why, thanks!">

I guess a DVD release might never happen, given the bad reviews of the film. I could imagine though that it'd sell very well. What bothers me is that now would probably the best time for a release, when everybody is anticipating Peter Jackson's trilogy. After that has been released, I'm sure considerably fewer people will be interested in the Bakshi version.

 Posted:   Mar 31, 2001 - 6:15 AM   
 By:   Bill R. Myers   (Member)

Certainly one of Rosenman's greatest accomplishments. The discordant stuff may deter some, but Rosenman's skills for texture, nuance, and intricate layering makes even the most incidental music into fascinating little set pieces. One reviewer called it "Rosenman's granite-hewn edifice"; what are you waiting for?

 Posted:   Mar 31, 2001 - 6:41 AM   
 By:   H. Rocco   (Member)

(blushing icon) awww, I feel like Willy Loman, "well liked ..."">

 Posted:   Apr 1, 2001 - 1:01 AM   
 By:   Gunnar   (Member)

Well, thanks a lot to everyone who has voiced his opinion on Rosenman’s LOTR. I guess I’ll have to order it pretty soon. I’m currently in the middle of reading the novels, so it would be nice to have some tailor-made music to accompany that.

And I also liked that, despite of the discussions going on elsewhere on this board, the FSMMB was again a very useful resource (if only for me).

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