Okay, kids. New thread's cranking. Do your worst!

--Cooper

Ron: Yes, you're correct that Dawn turned suddenly towards Spike--and then he pulled
back. But same diff, don't you think? He was reaching out to her & when she faced him,
something in him went--WHAT am I doing? Up until that point, it was a subconscious,
instinctive reaction--then he realized & pulled back. Also, in Forever, when he helped
Dawn with the Resurrection spell, she told him she knew why he was doing this. His
reply, "Do you? Enlighten me." That boy is SO confused.

Joan, I, too, wonder about Dawn's fate. Many possiblilities there.

As for Giles...I'm really gonna mess with all of your heads, now. I refer you back to last year's finale, Restless. Xander's dream: Giles & Spike swinging on the swingset. Spike says, "Giles is training me to be a Watcher."

Hee-hee.

Also, REALLY looking foward to the RETURN OF BECK for the finale. Could be the only part I'm NOT dreading.
[This message has been edited by debi (edited 03 May 2001).]

Beck on Deck! It'll be great.

Incidentally, hope the new thread title isn't viewed as too much of a slight toward Wanker. I think he does decent music for television, but he's no Jack Kennedy. Err, Chris Beck. He's no Chris Beck.

Cinescape.com has a brief article up on the WB's efforts to distance itself from BTVS. I'm sure you've all noticed they're promoting the season finale as the "Series Finale". How sporting of them.

--Cooper

[This message has been edited by Cooper (edited 03 May 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Cooper (edited 03 May 2001).]

Debi -- I think it's time we all re-watched last season's finale. We began this season citing premonitory quotes that had given us clues about Dawn...maybe, just maybe, the BtVS writers have been plotting years and years of stuff.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cooper:

In regard to Spike pulling back when Dawn turns to him... That, in itself, is interesting. Why would he care whether she sees him or not? Does he care about her reaction, or has she caused him to catch sight of himself, or both?
[This message has been edited by Cooper (edited 03 May 2001).]

---

Have any of you been smitten over someone? Have you been in their company, along with your special feelings about them? Have you ever caught yourself waiting for that innocent touch...brushing past...slight brushing of fingers when passing something to them?

I don't mean it's like that with Spike! But remember Tara seeing Dawn as a beautiful light?

Is it possible that Spike -- whose reaction toward Dawn has always been very special -- sees or senses something very beautiful and good in her?

So, that's the kind of touch I think of when I watch that scene. He does want to touch her, IMO...any reason to touch her, in fact, would satisfy him...such as consoling her. But I believe he doesn't want her to "see" him do it...

I don't know...it's just one thought I had about that scene and Spike.

It's that not wanting her to see him do it that's the crux of the issue. Says something about Spike, certainly. But what? What's he afraid of?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cooper:

It's that not wanting her to see him do it that's the crux of the issue. Says something about Spike, certainly. But what? What's he afraid of?

---

Maybe afraid of not being seen as "the big BAD" anymore?

UPN NEWS FLASH
Kamiakane, Coop, Jack, Joan(?) anyone else caught without UPN access, you might want to drop a line here--this site is trying to compile a list of those places without access:
http://www.voy.com/28392/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.voy.com/28392/

And hey, what's happened to H Rocco? You still with us? Get UPN?
[This message has been edited by debi (edited 03 May 2001).]

"The only thing that sounded really harsh in the press was the end of the L.A.Times piece with my comment on the possibility of the WB putting Angel up against Buffy. "That move is pure spite." I actually said "It's pure spite, and they're not spiteful, so they wouldn't do it." Small thing, but I only like to sound like I'm attacking someone when I am."

Ron: Put the thread together how? Where?

Debi:

Nice observation: re, the "duality of Spike" breakdown you made regarding the "Fool for Love" episode.

They almost seem to be casting vampirism in the light of metaphor there; Spike gathering up the tattered pieces of his pride and reshaping them into The Big Bad, his vampire self. That transitional sequence--where we witnessed an utterly destroyed, despairing Spike clutching at Buffy's payoff money...to the moment when he cocks that shotgun with the intent to bring her down--is among my favorites of this season. Do you think that episode was intended as a code book on how to read spike and his duelling natures throughout the remainder of the season?

The other metaphorical component of Spike they seem to be playing with this season is an exploration of vampirism as a product of will. If Spike could come to terms with himself, learn to accept his own grief without holding others accountable, could he defang the beast within? While on the literal level, they couldn't just have Spike choose not to be a vampire, the chip allows just enough latitude for him to appear to be making a choice; will he go for the searing pain--itself, possibly an allusion to how The Big Bad self doesn't do him any favors with his human relationships--or will he pause, reflect, and opt for another course of action...in turn lowering his arms and allowing others to see the William within? All this taken into account, the scene in the cave with Dawn in that last episode makes more sense, seems justified. As you suggest, it was a "William Moment"; there was the guy, the softy, that wrote that "bloody awful" poetry, poking his head out again.

--Cooper

I went to two previous threads and posted at the end so that all three for this season would post together when you opened the messageboard.

I wish we could put them all together. Actually, I think there is a way, but it would be very long......

The following may prove to be vaguely, indirectly "Spoilery", so be warned. Before deciding whether or not to go on, I can safely say that it involves word of a possible UK-only based Buffy spinoff that might--key word, "might"--allude to events that close the current season of The Buffinator.

8

7

6

5

4

3

2

1

***

Marti Noxon has suggested that plans are afoot to create a UK based, mini-series sized spinoff revolving around...Giles. There, I said it. This suggests word of the G-man's demise is premature, though a departure from Buffy may still be in the cards. Now, of course, I'm actively fearing for the wellfare of the entire roster of Scoobies, save Buffy; she's not going anywhere.

***

5

4

3

etc,

Here endeth the spoiler potential...

Noxon also commented on Whedon's planned, musical episode of Buffy for year six. He's not kidding, and I say that somewhat fearfully. She said it'll be "all singing, all dancing". Eek! Chock it up to hubris--maybe--but Whedon is penning all the music. At least he's forthright enough to warn, "...it could suck". Well, if he actually did write Giles' crooning sequence in "Restless," it could turn out to be a hoot.

On the other hand--and this is a personal problem--I usually find musicals cringe-worthy; can't help but imagine myself belting something out and, uh, that'd be a Titanic-sized disaster, with many lives lost... You know, 'cause of the terror!

--Cooper

[This message has been edited by Cooper (edited 04 May 2001).]

It's TUESDAY...Another NEW episode...We were LEFT HANGING as Glory destroyed the side of a building and spotted -- in the previews we see Buffy and Dawn running...

...stay tuned, kids...Buffy's gonna be jumping tonight!!!!

I MEAN IT .... SPOILERS AHEAD

All Right -- Don't say I didn't warn you!!

Well, well, well....

I think there's quite a bit more proof of Giles' portended departure.....

Plus, Buffy's funk -- the one they left her in at the conclusion of last night's episode -- signals the slayer in breakdown mode. She voiced it earlier when she said she didn't know how much more she could take. But now, she sees that her support structure has all but collapsed...her mom is dead, Giles was totally out of action, Willow has to watch Tara, and for some reason the writes are making Xander all squishy/cowardly again...a MAJOR LETDOWN on this character!!!!!

On the other hand, Buffy can TOTALLY depend on Spike!

With Dawn captured, Buffy's "will" seems to have deserted her. It will be interesting to see how the writers pull her out of it and put her on her feet.

It was good, finally, to get some insight into the medieval warrior sect and understand why they saw Buffy as evil...but I am banking heavily on Dawn's true nature to be a healing one...and one that can ultimately protect herself and others around her. She can't be just for one purpose -- she promised us in the very first episode in which she appeared, while writing in her diary: "Wait until they get a load of what 'I' can do!" I've been waiting ALL SEASON LONG and it's time to pay up!!!!

The music was particularly supportive last night..at times, it was great!

Ron

http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0%2C6115%2C109014~3~0~buffyproducerjosswhedon%2C00.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0%2C6115%2C109014~3~0~buffyproducerjosswhedon%2C00.html

Last night's eppies worked for me. Throughout Buffy, I kept seeing the series through the eyes of the uninitiated; what would they think of all this? Galloping hordes of round-tabley Knights, skanky goddesses morphing into doctors, babbling legions of brain-drained psycho-ward denizens... Well, I'm sure they'd think it was just so much schlock. It's nice being on the inside, eh? ...such that rather than seeming like anarchic hooey, Buffy played more like a carefully executed crescendoing of long-percolating story threads, all coming together in what's bound to be a mystical, battle-royale. I really like the way these more unabashedly mythic episodes play in contrast to more down to earth, hyper-realistic episodes like The Body. Again, astounding range for a television series.

I thought the mythology of Glory was handled nicely with some grave, Knightly exposition...and it's interesting to see that they're apparently going to preserve a degree of mystery with regard to Dawn; her nature and origin, assumedly so that they may continue to mine them for material next season.

Bottom line: Nice, larger-than-life Buffy.

Angel: Will Cordy rule over the "cow trash" with a fair and even hand, or will absolute power corrupt absolutely?

Ron:

I view all Dawn's diary entries as suspect, given that one remark she made, suggesting she made up lies in the event that it--the diary--ever fell into the wrong hands. She might've been lying about the lying. Hard to say, but that "...wait'll they see what I can do..." thing might've been sheer, self-aggrandizing deception. Exactly the kind of thing any kid with some esteem issues would put down in an entry...as a way of mythologizing herself, her life, her struggles, etc. This would make sense in that Dawn really had no inkling of being the key at this point. Just a hunch.

--Cooper

[This message has been edited by Cooper (edited 09 May 2001).]

Ron, I too enjoyed the music, especially the rousing theme played when
the medieval warriors were chasing the trailer.

Conundrums that are causing me to bang my head against the wall:
(I believe in mature behaviors at all times. http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/smile.gif">)
Will Giles die or simply decide he needs to retire? And if Xander is suppose
to be trained, I wonder why he caught a case of wimpitus, or is it just
motion sickness? Will the Scooby gang begin to tolerate Spike? I saw
minuscule movement in that area. If Glory is “undone,” will Tara’s mind
return, maybe with even more powers? Buffy’s massive losses this season
appear to be rendering her almost emotionally and physically paralyzed.
Will she kick Glory butt next week or next season? @#$%*&^%**
@#*&%@#...Life isn’t fair; I have to wait six more days for answers.

Having Glory decimate ALL of the warriors out of our sight was sheer wizardry.
It heightened her deadliness.

I’m speculating that some type of Semi-Sophie’s-Choice dilemma will occur
next week. Could the doctor kill Dawn for his freedom, could Buffy slay
the doctor (who really is an innocent) to save Dawn and the world, or could
Dawn sacrifice herself now that she’s aware of what the Key really means?

One can never really guess much from the previews. Next week’s previews
revealed little of the story and showed no fighting or action. Wow, shrouded
in secrecy! Torturing loyal viewers!!

: )

I think it's time to break Faith outta jail and bring her in to kick serious butt.

Also...let's not forget super-Buffy...the one that Giles and Willow and Xander called up to help her defeat Adam. Wonder how that Buffy would fare against "the Beast"?

I'm guessing, after reading the article Cooper linked us to, that Dawn is signed on for next season...

I'm guessing Angel and his gang have their hands pretty well full and can't help Buffy with the possible end of the world as we know it, although there were rumblings on "Angel" earlier on that hard times were coming. Maybe this one doesn't qualify???

I don't see how they can truly separate the shows...Sunnyvale most definitely exists in Angel's world and Angel exists in Sunnyvale's world...whatever affects one world will have to affect the other. When another "end of the world as we know it" crisis arises, well...you'd think they'd call out the hounds, wouldn't you!

I really can't wait to see what happens next...and I'm with you, Joan...the previews offered nothing to even tantalize us with possibilities.

I keep wishing Willow would do another teleportation spell...that was SO cool!

Joan: Yes, the wait is torture isn't it? Looks like next week might be mostly a re-grouping for poor broken Buffy. I'm guessing it's going to be mostly slayer's visions and portents of things to come. And Glory trying to figure out how to use that Key--I wonder if she knows what to do with it in human form?

Ron: I have a theory about Angel/the dimension, but...once again, I think I won't share and just let it unfold. Let's just say I think a crossover is still a possibility.

Should we be worried about H Rocco? Anyone seen him around?