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 Posted:   Mar 24, 2006 - 11:18 PM   
 By:   Jim Titus   (Member)

So earlier this week I manage to catch the 1925 silent Phantom Of The Opera, starring Lon Chaney. I believe the version I was watching was scored by Carl Davis, who also composed a score for the 1921 Ben-Hur, and the mid-90s BBC production of Pride & Prejudice. Davis's score fit the film well, but hearing it made me long to know what Roy Budd had planned for the film.

I'm a great admirer of Budd's scoring work and am hoping one day that this final project of his will see the light of day. If memory serves, I believe the score was finished and recorded shortly before his death in the mid-80s.

Has anyone hear ever heard the score, or know anything of the reason why it remains unreleased. The only reason I ask is that, although silent film scores aren't flying off the shelves at my nearest Best Buy (they'd have to BE there first!), a good swath of Budd's scores are released and in print and he seems to have about as many compilation albums as Morricone.

But no luck for The Phantom...

 
 Posted:   Mar 25, 2006 - 5:36 AM   
 By:   Chris1770   (Member)

A few months ago I've started a thread about Roy Budd including many comprehensive posts, some dealing about the Phantom project as well. Sadly, this thread has disappeared completely. What happened to it?

According to Geoff Leonard, Roy Budd finished recording the music right before he died. - I don't know why it was necessary to hire Carl Davis to write another score. - Roy Budd was very proud of his own score, by the way. His widow tried to sell the music but asked too much money for it. I guess, some day, we'll see the soundtrack released anyway.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 25, 2006 - 6:51 AM   
 By:   musickco   (Member)

Well there is no "connection" between the Carl Davis and Roy Budd scores. Carl Davis was commisioned by those restoring the film (Thames Silents, I think) and this would be inclusive of Mr Davis conducting live performances to film, of his score being on all Thames Silents prints for TV broadcast and video sales etc - and they did historically have the market "sown up".

It would seem Roy Budd was unaware of this commission - and given the film was out of copyright presumably thought he might provide a score. But obviously his timing was off - with the Phantom Of The Opera suddenly showing in live performance with Carl Davis' score, then being released on video, and getting TV screenings.

I did hear Roy Budd's score - but don't remember it - it was a long time ago -but presumably it was very good. In another few years the marketplace might stand another Phantom with another score.

I also seem to recall the price being asked fot the CD rights was quite high. And with the "other" score out there all over the marketplace ...?

As an aside I attended a screening of Phantom Of The Opera with Carl Davis conducting live at London's Royal Festival Hall. I went with composer James Bernard, most famous for his Hammer horror scores. After the concert/film James said that he would love to provide a new score for one of these silent films one day.

Well, it seesm he got his wish - it wasn't long before we were back at The Royal Festival Hall - the very next year - for the premiere of Nosferatu, with a new score by James Bernard!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 25, 2006 - 9:14 PM   
 By:   Jim Titus   (Member)

A few months ago I've started a thread about Roy Budd including many comprehensive posts, some dealing about the Phantom project as well. Sadly, this thread has disappeared completely. What happened to it?

You know, before starting this new topic I searched the entire board and couldn't find even a single Roy Budd thread. Must be some sort of glitch. Glad to hear there are some Budd fans out there. I think it's love it or leave it when it comes to his trademark scores with that jazzy urban sound, for example Get Carter or Black WIndmill. I just flat out love those types of scores. But I think his more traditionally orchestral scores for Kidnapped or the Sinbad flick are much more listener friendly, even though strangely enough, these are the films that are never included on the many Budd compilation discs.

By the way, musicko, can you give me an indication how Budd's Phantom score compared to Davis's?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2006 - 10:29 AM   
 By:   musickco   (Member)

""By the way, musicko, can you give me an indication how Budd's Phantom score compared to Davis's?""

Sorry, I can't remember a note - not even the style. Back in those days we used to receive tapes virtually every day - I've heard hundreds over the years and they all meld into a sort of melange in my mind. I remember really liking Carl Davis' score for The Raft Of The Medusa - but can't recall a note of that either! Mind you, without pulling out the CD I can't recall a note of Carl Davis' score for The Phantom Of the Opera either!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2009 - 7:14 PM   
 By:   Peter C. Budd   (Member)

As to Roy's wife trying to sell Roy's version of the Phantom, that is untrue! She would never let go of that production. What she did try to do was get someone to produce it, and at one point Scorvase was going to do it, but had other projects going on at the time.
Roy had the only original 35mm black and white film in existence, and had it restored with the original colors added (yes there were color tints in the original) I have a copy and it is amazing what he did with the score! Carl Davis's score really doesn't compare to Roy's version. It was over eighty minutes long (the score) one continues piece of music. Dudley Moore was asked to conduct the music, but didn't feel up to it. Sadly, a week before it made his premier Roy passed away.
One of these days it will be shown as Sylvia (Roy's Widow) is still interested in having it being performed with a full orchestra.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2009 - 1:10 AM   
 By:   Simon Morris   (Member)

This is all interesting stuff - thanks for bringing this thread up to date, Peter.

I believe I'm right in thinking that you are Roy's brother. If you use the search facility on this forum, you will see that Roy has a large following on this Message Board!

 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2009 - 5:12 AM   
 By:   Chris1770   (Member)

As to Roy's wife trying to sell Roy's version of the Phantom, that is untrue! She would never let go of that production. What she did try to do was get someone to produce it, and at one point Scorvase was going to do it, but had other projects going on at the time.
Roy had the only original 35mm black and white film in existence, and had it restored with the original colors added (yes there were color tints in the original) I have a copy and it is amazing what he did with the score! Carl Davis's score really doesn't compare to Roy's version. It was over eighty minutes long (the score) one continues piece of music. Dudley Moore was asked to conduct the music, but didn't feel up to it. Sadly, a week before it made his premier Roy passed away.
One of these days it will be shown as Sylvia (Roy's Widow) is still interested in having it being performed with a full orchestra.


I'm sorry, Peter, for having spread a wrong information which I took for a fact. I had it from somedoday who posts on this board, too. And I thought it was 100% reliable. I am a great admirer of your late brothers music and I do wish somebody can pull the things together and release the Phantom score!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2009 - 5:48 AM   
 By:   Nick Haysom   (Member)

Roy had the only original 35mm black and white film in existence, and had it restored with the original colors added

Could you enlarge on this please? How did Roy come to have the only 35mm print of the film? Did he himself pay to have it restored?

 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2009 - 8:19 AM   
 By:   johnjohnson   (Member)

Roy Budd often visited 58 Dean Street Records in London.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2009 - 11:33 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

This is all interesting stuff - thanks for bringing this thread up to date, Peter.

I believe I'm right in thinking that you are Roy's brother. If you use the search facility on this forum, you will see that Roy has a large following on this Message Board!


And if you are, please hang around - some of us are huge fans and it would be grand to have such a close link to a great composer and performer.

TG

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 13, 2009 - 10:02 AM   
 By:   john mansell   (Member)

I had the honour to meet and also interview Roy, shortly before his far to early passing, he was great, very funny and bubbly, he had just finished phantom of the opera at this time and was so proud of the music, I was saddened by his death and also mortified when they did not use what he thought was his finest work for film, I met his widow a few months later at a gathering for the original music from the movies magazine when john williams was the editor (the good old days) we chatted and I found out she did have the score or a recording of I think, and there were problems concerning its ownership, what i do not know, She is French I believe and was going to France after the function, I am not sure but I think what she was saying was she was being pressured by people within the industry to give them the score, I hope she did not do it, in my opinion a lot of hangers on made money out of Roys genius, and took advantage of a really lovely person,

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 15, 2009 - 8:21 AM   
 By:   Peter C. Budd   (Member)

Roy had the only original 35mm black and white film in existence, and had it restored with the original colors added

Could you enlarge on this please? How did Roy come to have the only 35mm print of the film? Did he himself pay to have it restored?


Roy told me that he paid 35,000 pounds for it. I forget where he found it? Yes he paid to have it restored.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 15, 2009 - 8:26 AM   
 By:   Peter C. Budd   (Member)

I had the honour to meet and also interview Roy, shortly before his far to early passing, he was great, very funny and bubbly, he had just finished phantom of the opera at this time and was so proud of the music, I was saddened by his death and also mortified when they did not use what he thought was his finest work for film, I met his widow a few months later at a gathering for the original music from the movies magazine when john williams was the editor (the good old days) we chatted and I found out she did have the score or a recording of I think, and there were problems concerning its ownership, what i do not know, She is French I believe and was going to France after the function, I am not sure but I think what she was saying was she was being pressured by people within the industry to give them the score, I hope she did not do it, in my opinion a lot of hangers on made money out of Roys genius, and took advantage of a really lovely person,

You are right! There are many people that are making money off of Roy's recordings, especially the people who are releasing his film scores on CD. I will not mention their names, but Sylvia does not get any of the royalties from them. She has been fighting it for years now.
I have many recordings of Roy, some since he was six years old playing piano. I miss him dearly, and I hope someday the public will hear the brilliant score that he did for the Phantom.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 15, 2009 - 8:29 AM   
 By:   Peter C. Budd   (Member)

This is all interesting stuff - thanks for bringing this thread up to date, Peter.

I believe I'm right in thinking that you are Roy's brother. If you use the search facility on this forum, you will see that Roy has a large following on this Message Board!


And if you are, please hang around - some of us are huge fans and it would be grand to have such a close link to a great composer and performer.

I found this site by accident, and it is very nice to hear some good things about Roy. If anyone has any question they would like me to answer, just ask, and I will do my best to answer them. Music or otherwise!
Here is my e-mail in case anyone wants to contact me personally. .budd@sbcglobal.net">p.budd@sbcglobal.net
TG

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 30, 2014 - 5:29 AM   
 By:   rmoores   (Member)

You may all like to know that Roy's score for Phantom is shortly to be released on CD and a DVD of the restored film along with his score is already available.

See roybudd.com for details.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 30, 2014 - 7:58 AM   
 By:   martyn.crosthwaite   (Member)

ROY BUDD.............ONLY ONE WORD FOR HIM........GENIUS......and along with John Barry and Ron Goodwin this trio of English Greats must never be forgotten.....Go and buy the DVD of Phantom of the Opera with Roy Budds score and it will prove beyond doubt that he really was a musical genius .....he could anything and everything musically.....with the greatest of ease.....

 
 Posted:   Apr 30, 2014 - 10:40 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Any news on the possibility of us getting an original soundtrack CD of "Soldier Blue"? (as opposed to the lightweight, pop-like re-recorded album that was put out at the time).

 
 Posted:   Apr 30, 2014 - 12:54 PM   
 By:   serifiot   (Member)

I don't see a CD release (???) but only a DVD release with Roy Bud's score which no less is a good thing but I would have preferred a separate CD release in addition to the DVD or at least a CD included with this DVD release. All this doesn't matter of course because I cannot buy this, Mishka Productions has chosen domestic shipping which serves only the UK. Hopefully it will become available at other retailers were they do ship internationally.

 
 
 Posted:   May 1, 2014 - 1:33 AM   
 By:   rmoores   (Member)

Firstly 'Soldier Blue'. Depends on the rights holders. I transferred all of Roy's personal tape archive to disc for his widow Sylvia a couple of years back and there was some Soldier Blue material, but I don't know if was the same as the album release or original soundtrack.

As I said the CD will be available shortly - but isn't up on Amazon yet. It should be any day now though.

Sylvia Budd has spent a lot of time and energy putting these releases together and I'm sure wouldn't appreciate being described as "sort of idiotic". This is her first release and it is self published so problems may occur like not being able to buy outside the UK. I will, however, mention this to Sylvia and see if there is an alternative way of doing this.

I will post again when the CD is available.

Richard Moore
Mint Audio

 
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