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I love the score for MOONRAKER, but it does seem like it might be financial folly to focus so much on a re-recording just to satisfy a small number of fans who want the complete score...Recordings of MISTER MOSES and THE BETSY deserve more attention seeing as how neither had any album release, but I understand that a case could be that MOONRAKER still wins when it comes to simple name recognition.
I agree that entirely unreleased and unavailable Barry should take precedence, yet Moonraker, as explained in previous posts, has been so unbelievably badly served on commercial audio releases over the years (and I don't think the Silva Screen Bond Back in Action 2 material, as proud as James is of it, really came anywhere close to achieving the potential of that music) that it easily merits, by artistry and sales potential, a new recording.
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It will come, it is just a question of patience, tapes of the original sessions in Paris at Davout are not lost.
You say this with certainty. Is it known for certain the tapes still exist? And if so, is it known what is holding up an expanded release of the score?
I would be perfectly happy with an expansion of the original recording.
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We really should have an FAQ as this has been covered about a dozen times in the last year! :-)
Okay, let's go over it again.
When Lukas Kendall was doing the 2003 editions, he said the MOONRAKER tapes were not in London. That got misquoted as, "the tapes no longer exist".
Then, Stephane Larouge reported that he had approached Davout studios to see if they still had MOONRAKER. They told him that they cleared out all unclaimed tapes some years ago. That got misinterpreted as, "the tapes were dumped by Davout".
However, what everybody missed is that the tapes were shipped from Paris to Denham studios in 1979 for dubbing. I mean, the music got dubbed on to the film somehow, right? They didn't just record the score and leave it behind, you know. And since Davout is a recording studio, not an archive facility, there was no reason for the tapes to be shipped back there after dubbing had finished.
Besides, Bond aficionados Graham Rye and friend positively sighted the MOONRAKER score tapes in crates at Pinewood. I forget when they said this was. 1999? 2000? A while ago, anyway. But still a good 20 years after MOONRAKER was recorded.
So, the tapes were not dumped by Davout. They were positively seen some time ago. But they were not stored with other Bond score tapes in London when the 2003 CDs were being produced.
And that's as much as has been factually reported.
Besides, even if the tapes were found, there's a lot more hurdles than just that to get the music out. Especially where Bond stuff is concerned. Some very big and powerful people seem very custodial over that stuff.
Cheers
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Posted: |
Nov 19, 2014 - 1:53 PM
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By: |
governor
(Member)
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We really should have an FAQ as this has been covered about a dozen times in the last year! :-)
Okay, let's go over it again.
When Lukas Kendall was doing the 2003 editions, he said the MOONRAKER tapes were not in London. That got misquoted as, "the tapes no longer exist".
Then, Stephane Larouge reported that he had approached Davout studios to see if they still had MOONRAKER. They told him that they cleared out all unclaimed tapes some years ago. That got misinterpreted as, "the tapes were dumped by Davout".
However, what everybody missed is that the tapes were shipped from Paris to Denham studios in 1979 for dubbing. I mean, the music got dubbed on to the film somehow, right? They didn't just record the score and leave it behind, you know. And since Davout is a recording studio, not an archive facility, there was no reason for the tapes to be shipped back there after dubbing had finished.
Besides, Bond aficionados Graham Rye and friend positively sighted the MOONRAKER score tapes in crates at Pinewood. I forget when they said this was. 1999? 2000? A while ago, anyway. But still a good 20 years after MOONRAKER was recorded.
So, the tapes were not dumped by Davout. They were positively seen some time ago. But they were not stored with other Bond score tapes in London when the 2003 CDs were being produced.
And that's as much as has been factually reported.
Besides, even if the tapes were found, there's a lot more hurdles than just that to get the music out. Especially where Bond stuff is concerned. Some very big and powerful people seem very custodial over that stuff.
Cheers
thanks Stephen for your informative answer about moonraker !
I would add one thing :
EON
http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=100561&forumID=1&archive=0
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Given Barbara Broccoli's and Eon's great affection for JB, I find it a little sad that there's seemingly no support for getting this music out. I struggle to understand it.
Except that, of course, as affectionate as they may be, their time and concentration is probably all in whatever the new Bond film is, not what a handful of score fans want.
Let's hope this stuff gets done eventually.
Cheers
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Posted: |
Nov 19, 2014 - 2:31 PM
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By: |
JamesFitz
(Member)
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Well as I have said until I am blue in the face, if someone wants to give me £30,000...I will certainly record it it ... but also certainly I would not spend my own money on it.... so let's see if the John Barry fans can put something together???
James, to do a proper Moonraker album would require someone to approximate Shirley Bassey's performance, plus a chorus to accompany some of the finest parts of the score. This surely adds up to much more than £30,000.
Can Smecky Studios even accommodate a chorus and an orchestra at the same time? Doesn't appear so from the session videos I've enjoyed. These factors, plus the additional Bond score licensing expense, adds to the challenges this proposal faces.
All the more reason for the world's wealthiest John Barry aficionados (a category that sadly excludes me) to crowd-fund this project and get it done. No sense doing it unless it's done right. I will, however, pledge to buy a copy.
Take a look at Chris Malone's estimation of the Original Sound Track audio quality (located near the top of this thread) for the major reasons this score deserves a new recording.
Well I already recorded a suite of music from MOONRAKER at Smecky with the CoPPO and Chorus and Nic Raine...so no problem there... especially as the chorus is not very large for this score...much smaller than EL CID, QUO VADIS, CONAN, QBVII, etc... which all had 60/80 voice chorus' recorded at Smecky.... and compare to recording some of those, MOONRAKER would be a piece of p..s And I know 3 fantastic west end singers who do a superb Dame Shirley !
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We really should have an FAQ as this has been covered about a dozen times in the last year! :-)
Okay, let's go over it again.
When Lukas Kendall was doing the 2003 editions, he said the MOONRAKER tapes were not in London. That got misquoted as, "the tapes no longer exist".
Then, Stephane Larouge reported that he had approached Davout studios to see if they still had MOONRAKER. They told him that they cleared out all unclaimed tapes some years ago. That got misinterpreted as, "the tapes were dumped by Davout".
However, what everybody missed is that the tapes were shipped from Paris to Denham studios in 1979 for dubbing. I mean, the music got dubbed on to the film somehow, right? They didn't just record the score and leave it behind, you know. And since Davout is a recording studio, not an archive facility, there was no reason for the tapes to be shipped back there after dubbing had finished.
Besides, Bond aficionados Graham Rye and friend positively sighted the MOONRAKER score tapes in crates at Pinewood. I forget when they said this was. 1999? 2000? A while ago, anyway. But still a good 20 years after MOONRAKER was recorded.
So, the tapes were not dumped by Davout. They were positively seen some time ago. But they were not stored with other Bond score tapes in London when the 2003 CDs were being produced.
And that's as much as has been factually reported.
Besides, even if the tapes were found, there's a lot more hurdles than just that to get the music out. Especially where Bond stuff is concerned. Some very big and powerful people seem very custodial over that stuff.
Cheers
Unless I had read this previously and somehow forgotten, I believe this is the first I've heard of this. Thanks for the information (and reason for optimism)!
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Well as I have said until I am blue in the face, if someone wants to give me £30,000...I will certainly record it it ... but also certainly I would not spend my own money on it.... so let's see if the John Barry fans can put something together???
Why not do a kickstarter for it? Easy way for all the fans to donate money.
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It's hard to estimate how many people would donate to a project like this. It would almost certainly only be a small proportion of people who would but the disc.
Let's say the disc would sell 2,500 units at $20 per unit. (Who knows how right or wrong that is.)
That would return $50,000, which would just about cover the cost of the project. If you can see 2,500 units going, it looks like you'd break even.
What this title has going for it is it's a John Barry James Bond score. What it has going against it is a lot of people might be quite happy with their 30-minute CD and not shell out.
Anyway, let's say 10% of that 2,500 are prepared to invest up front to make the project happen. (Again, I have no idea how good an estimate that is.)
That means you'd have to get about 250 people coming in at an average of about $200 per contribution to get the project going. Or 500 at about $100 per.
Hey, it may work. It may be a good way to go.
Thing is, people have been talking about this for well over a year. Who's actually going to do something about it? Please don't look at me: I have so many projects on the go, I feel like I work dawn to midnight seven days a week as it is. I haven't got time to become a fundraiser too.
But I would contribute—as long as I get my money back if the project falls through—if someone set something up.
Cheers
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And I know 3 fantastic west end singers who do a superb Dame Shirley !
Where are they? Why do they hide?
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Posted: |
Nov 20, 2014 - 9:20 AM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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Let's say the disc would sell 2,500 units at $20 per unit. (Who knows how right or wrong that is.)
That would return $50,000, which would just about cover the cost of the project. If you can see 2,500 units going, it looks like you'd break even.
But that's only if you sell every one of those copies directly. If any go through retailers like Screen Archives, Intrada, or even Amazon (and they'd probably have to), you'd make maybe $12-$15 on each CD sold, not the full $20.
What this title has going for it is it's a John Barry James Bond score. What it has going against it is a lot of people might be quite happy with their 30-minute CD and not shell out.
Indeed, as I believe you yourself have pointed out, while people speak of this one like there's a vast amount of score as yet unreleased, that's not the case. Also, there will inevitably be those who'll say "I'll wait for the original, thanks" and the like. Not everybody pining for this score is pining for a rerecording.
All of which is to say what you're saying, Stephen, which is the frequent suggestion "Why not start a Kickstarter?" makes it seem like this is a gimme, and I'm not confident that it is.
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