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Their site suggests that Remo is taken from a DAT provided by the composer. That sounds extremely... well... "unusual" to me. Surely the master tapes must still be around?
How little you know...
You'd be amazed at how many CDS are produced from DATS and alike taken from the composers archives.
A classic example was Jerry Goldsmith's LEGEND score.
The masters as well as the written scores have been lost and the only exising copy of the score were dats made by the Engineer for the composer...
He never got around to sending them over and mentioned the fact to James Fitzpatrick at SILVA, which is why they were able to release a expanded edition.
When I produced FIRE ON THE MOUNTAIN/FLYERS for PROMETHEUS RECORDS, the only existing masters were in Basil's personal archive.
Ford A. Thaxton
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Release Rosenman's score for the original SYBIL legitimately and I might consider forking over a $10 deposit. All of the above is horsepucky (something I agree with Ford Thaxton about for a change) and anyone who prepays anything for these bootleg/promos deserves to be swindled.
"Deserve to be swindled"???
Are you out of your mind? If you're not interested in these releases why not just say so and move on?.....You've implied that Robin by making these titles available is out to screw us. Well you could not be farther from the truth if you tried.
Masses of PROMOS have been produced and sold by just about every specialty label out there from Bay Cities to Screen Archives to Intrada to Super Tracks to you name it. THEY ARE NOT BOOTLEGS! These labels have the rights to PRODUCE these and that's what separates them from "bootlegs". And they are VERY EXPENSIVE and time consuming to produce so in order to make it possible for us to enjoy, these COSTS must be recouped somehow and selling some is really the only way to do it. And it's the only way any of us can hear some of this music. Or perhaps one of those PROMOS made by the studios to promote their scores for Academy Award purposes (who unlike the specialty labels do not need to recoup their costs)can miraculously find it's way into YOUR hands without your having to spend a penny. If the 2 CD Artificial Intelligence LEGITIMATE PROMOS went on sale for $20 would you have no interest then?
By taking deposits Robin is just trying to get an idea of how many to produce. Understandable since he way underestimated the demand for LOCH NESS and that wasn't a promo.
Technically it is NOT legal for anyone to SELL promos so if you want to play policeman go ahead but if you're also a fan of great film music don't worry about Robin, you'll be screwing yourself.
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This is very interesting and I will have to check with Lukas on this to make sure it is something he wants here. Until I get an answer (or the end of the day draws nigh), I will leave it here (although it belongs in the trading post folder...NOT in the general duscussion folder).
SheriffJoe
I beg to differ on WHERE this belongs as it concerns issues (many of which are vastly misunderstood)between consumers, manufacturers, sellers, posters etc. that have implications far beyond the subject of interest to those who view only the trading post.
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Maybe John Morgan or David Schecter could chime in on this ridiculousness of pre-ordering a re-recording with a pricetag that far exceeds their own A+ releases, then skimps on the running time. A disturbing trend, indeed!
While you're at it also ask about their COSTS VS. SALES revenues!
This is a specialty market. Do you have any clue (I know I sound like Ford)as to how expensive these are to produce? Do you have any idea at all how few could give a toss about film music in general let alone a RE-RECORDING of a REJECTED score???
That's what Robin's trying to get a little more info on. And what do you do??? Kill the golden goose.
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Isn't this the same label that when they released LOCH NESS, claimed it was limited to 1000 units. Then they said they were running out so buy quickly. Shortly after, the story changed from it being a 1000 pressing run to they were only referring to the first pressing of 1000.
I'm not sure what this label's strategy is.
Yes Roger, that's right. They produced more to meet the underestimated demand. If they hadn't there'd be hundreds of very upset film music fans out there (myself included)who'd be paying huge dollars on e-bay. Even more would bash Robin for not producing enough. I think you're overdramatizing this by suggesting there's a strategy to it.
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Another point to consider. Since when has this message board been used to solicite the sale of 'promos' (or bootlegs?) which are presumably unlicensed by their prospective rights holders?
Sheriff? Anyone?
Since you state "anyone" I'll chime in here as well. LEGITIMATE Promos like the CDs that Robin is producing ARE licensed (UNLIKE BOOTLEGS)to be produced,unfortunately not for sale. (Think Academy Promos produced by the studios who own the music). Their manufacturers for us however, need to sell them is due to the costs of manufacturing them in the first place.
If you really want to be a policeman and keep us from having the chance of hearing some of this music...then what on earth are you doing here???
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Posted: |
Jun 6, 2006 - 6:28 PM
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By: |
SheriffJoe
(Member)
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pooter: as a fan of film music, I agree with you. However, the only way for any score release to be legal is if it is released by the copyright owners of that music.
For the public, this is where it gets tricky. When do we know if a score is legit? We may assume (and I WILL assume, as I don't have the numbers and facts in front of me) that composers, such as Lalo Schifrin and John Scott (and Elmer Bernstein), who own their own record labels, actually purchase the rights from the owners in order to release them.
In the early years, Chris Young and John Debney produced promotional discs to give out with the hopes of getting their music heard by a greater number of people. Companies such as Intrada helped out in these endeavors, although that is no longer the case (for Intrada, at least). Some composers self-produce their work and get it out there, content to not make a dime as long as the music is heard.
Self-produced promotional discs are a Hollywood standard and are, I think, the best way for unheard and/or unreleased scores to get the chance for playtime. However, money cannot be made from these discs...at least legally...at least as far as I know. Not being a lawyer, I don't know if there are loopholes in copyright law that allow for any such circumstances to exist.
Again, I hope this helps.
SheriffJoe
P.S. IMPORTANT NOTE: *A company may licence a score for a fee and release it as a promotional disc, which is something Intrada did and for which I am enternally grateful, as I got some great music from them this way. This kind of a sale IS legal, as the company releasing the music has paid for the rights to do so.*
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"Deserve to be swindled"???
Are you out of your mind? If you're not interested in these releases why not just say so and move on?.....You've implied that Robin by making these titles available is out to screw us. Well you could not be farther from the truth if you tried.
Masses of PROMOS have been produced and sold by just about every specialty label out there from Bay Cities to Screen Archives to Intrada to Super Tracks to you name it. THEY ARE NOT BOOTLEGS! These labels have the rights to PRODUCE these and that's what separates them from "bootlegs"...
I may be out of my mind, but you, apparently, are quite wrong.
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I may be out of my mind, but you, apparently, are quite wrong.
Apparently? Where? How? To my knowledge no one on ANY post related to this subject has said so about something I've stated as fact. Not Ford, Doug Fake, Lukas, etc. and they (like myself)are in the business. Now if you or anyone else would like to challenge me specifcally on anything specific I've said please do so. I am open willing and ready to respond.
If you are referring to the Sherrif's most recent post where he STATES in his P.S. that Intrada's PROMOS can be legally SOLD he is factually wrong here. They wouldn't need to be PROMOS for one thing. I may not be a lawyer either but I've spoken to way too many attorneys on this subject already, union reps, manufacturers, composers etc. to sit idly by while false information is presented as fact...and as far as your post is concerned good people like Robin are slandered.
In my response to Mark of Score O's statement concerning the fact that all of the license holder's permission was grranted to produce YSH PROMO I said that "MAY" have been the case...Then Ford came on and said that in fact Paramount was NOT contacted. That is why I used the workd "MAY" because I didn't have specific information to refute it. I have only stated that LEGITIMATE PROMOS have in fact been approved of by the license holders and used as an example those issued by the studios for AA consideration...(which are not licensed for sale either). I did not have any specific information on Young Sherlock Holmes but thought that Intrada would have sought permission from SOMEONE at Paramount (and perhaps they did) but in any event the copyright holder alone cannot make these PROMOS legally sellable.
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