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 Posted:   Jul 23, 2006 - 3:31 PM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

This was stimulated by another thread on Douglas Gamely (who?). But surely this lady deserves a headline too.

Elisabeth Lutyens (1906-1983). Ah, I see that it's her centennial year. Now there's another composer who gets no respect in film music circles. Despite her pioneering role in film music -- she was just about the only significant female composer before the 1970s -- nobody ever mentions her scores. Things are quite different in the musical world. She gets nearly two columns in Baker's: "Important English composer." She has an extensive catalogue of works in all forms, published a vivid memoir (A Goldfish Bowl, 1972), and is herself the subject of a critical study (M.and S. Harries, A Pilgrim Soul, 1989). So where are the Lutyens experts hiding and where's the clamor for recordings of her film music?

Perhaps she deserves, if not a room, then at least a thread of her own.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2006 - 4:42 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Elisabeth Lutyens (1906-1983). Ah, I see that it's her centennial year. Now there's another composer who gets no respect in film music circles. Despite her pioneering role in film music -- she was just about the only significant female composer before the 1970s --

Perhaps internationally. But Norway had at least two female film composers before 1970, and they were both major figures nationally: Maj Sønstevold (married to another film composer, Gunnar Sønstevold, together forming what must be the only film composer married couple in history) and Pauline Hall.

Anyways, I've always wanted to check out Lutyens. How would you describe her music?

NP: ROSWELL (Goldenthal)

 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2006 - 9:39 PM   
 By:   MusicUnite   (Member)

Ah yes. Good ole Lis. One of my favorites (I've posted about her before on FSM).

As Rozsaphile mentioned there are two very fine books on Lutyens. Both are required
reading.

Her music is serial and she made no apologies for it (nor should she have to). Its not
everyone's cup of tea, but I do enjoy most of what I've heard.

Currently, there is only one CD that contains Lutyens' works (on the NMC label I believe).
There were a number of classical LPs on Decca from the 60s-70's that often had at
least one composition by Lis. Alas, none of these have ever made it CD.

Most of her output was for small orchestral ensembles, chamber or solo works.

As for her film music, she usually had larger orchestral forces available to her than in
her classical pieces. She was typecast as a horror film composer, but truly with her
stringent sound world, she was best suited for that genre.

Among her finest efforts; Dr. Terror's House of Horrors, The Skull, Theatre of Death
and The Earth Dies Screaming.

Jay

 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2006 - 9:44 PM   
 By:   MusicUnite   (Member)

...Maj Sønstevold (married to another film composer, Gunnar Sønstevold, together forming what must be the only film composer married couple in history)...

Actually, there was one other film composing couple; William Alwyn & Doreen Carwithen.

Jay

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2006 - 10:10 PM   
 By:   The_Mark_of_Score-O   (Member)

Oh, Elisabeth. For a moment I thought you were referring to the German Admiral who was on the Bismarck.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2006 - 10:33 PM   
 By:   gumdrops1   (Member)

I grew up on the films of Hammer and Amicus. Hammer had James Bernard. Amicus had Elisabeth Lutyens.

Her music for THE SKULL made that film extra creepy.

Though she got a chance to write some really great action music for THE TERRORNAUTS.

God. I loved those 'plucked strings.'

ELISABETH LUTYENS RULES!!!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2006 - 9:25 AM   
 By:   James Phillips   (Member)

Richard Rodney Bennett is very indebted to Ms. Luytens and has acknowledged her influence on his work.

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2006 - 10:51 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Was she a descendant of the famous architect?

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2006 - 8:01 AM   
 By:   Guenther K   (Member)

Was she a descendant of the famous architect?

His daughter.

 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2018 - 2:29 PM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

Powerhouse Films in the UK have just released an impressive Blu-ray box set of Hammer films (Hammer Volume Two; Criminal Intent). I've never thought much of Hammer's horror films but I've always enjoyed their 50s/60s thrillers and psychological dramas.

The box set includes the rarely seen film "Never Take Sweets From a Stranger" scored by Elisabeth Lutyens and amongst the extras is a 43-minute appreciation of Lutyens by writer and musicologist David Huckvale. It's one of the best documentaries about a composer working in film which I've seen. Sitting at the piano and providing numerous musical examples, Huckvale offers a scholarly examination of Lutyens music and how it works within, not only "Never take Sweets...", but from various other films she composed for Hammer.

Trivia spot. Apparently Lutyens was the first composer to use the Hungarian instrument the cymbalom in a film, in 1965 for "The Skull."

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2018 - 2:54 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Trivia spot. Apparently Lutyens was the first composer to use the Hungarian instrument the cymbalom in a film, in 1965 for "The Skull."


Hmmm. According to Wikipedia, "The cimbalom appears in Christmas in Connecticut (1945) in a scene in Felix's (S.Z. Sakall) Hungarian restaurant in Manhattan. It was also featured in the films Captain Blood (1935), The Divorce of Lady X (1938), and Sherlock Holmes and the Secret Weapon (1943)."

It's possible that those earlier appearances of the cimbalom were just that--appearances--and not actual uses in the score. But, also according to Wikipedia, "John Barry used it in the title theme for the film The Ipcress File (1965)," which was released 5 months before THE SKULL.

 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2018 - 3:35 PM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

Trivia spot. Apparently Lutyens was the first composer to use the Hungarian instrument the cymbalom in a film, in 1965 for "The Skull."


Hmmm. According to Wikipedia, "The cimbalom appears in Christmas in Connecticut (1945) in a scene in Felix's (S.Z. Sakall) Hungarian restaurant in Manhattan. It was also featured in the films Captain Blood (1935), The Divorce of Lady X (1938), and Sherlock Holmes and the Secret Weapon (1943). ... John Barry used it in the title theme for the film The Ipcress File (1965)" [released 5 months before THE SKULL]


David Huckvale is no doubt referring to the instrument being used as part of the dramatic score rather than source music. He also refers to the it being used in "The Ipcress File" and also "King Rat" but says they were released after "The Skull" although he's probably referring to the UK release dates.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2018 - 3:49 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

David Huckvale is no doubt referring to the instrument being used as part of the dramatic score rather than source music. He also refers to the it being used in "The Ipcress File" and also "King Rat" but says they were released after "The Skull" although he's probably referring to the UK release dates.


According to the IMDB. the UK release of THE IPCRESS FILE (18 March 1965) was 18 months before that of THE SKULL (4 NOVEMBER 1966). It seems odd to me that THE SKULL, being a British production, would be released in the UK later than in the U.S. (25 August 1965), but even if you assume that THE SKULL was released in the UK in August 1965 (as Wikipedia seems to), THE IPCRESS FILE was still released 5 months earlier.

This may seem picky, but if Huckvale is claiming a "first" for something, I think you have to be picky about it.

 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2018 - 4:24 PM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

David Huckvale is no doubt referring to the instrument being used as part of the dramatic score rather than source music. He also refers to the it being used in "The Ipcress File" and also "King Rat" but says they were released after "The Skull" although he's probably referring to the UK release dates.


According to the IMDB. the UK release of THE IPCRESS FILE (18 March 1965) was 18 months before that of THE SKULL (4 NOVEMBER 1966). It seems odd to me that THE SKULL, being a British production, would be released in the UK later than in the U.S. (25 August 1965), but even if you assume that THE SKULL was released in the UK in August 1965 (as Wikipedia seems to), THE IPCRESS FILE was still released 5 months earlier.

This may seem picky, but if Huckvale is claiming a "first" for something, I think you have to be picky about it.


Well I've no idea. All I know is that Huckvale says "The Skull" was released in England before "The Ipcress File". He is quite an expert on Hammer films having written numerous books and Imdb is not a reliable source.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2018 - 5:50 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

All I know is that Huckvale says "The Skull" was released in England before "The Ipcress File". He is quite an expert on Hammer films having written numerous books and Imdb is not a reliable source.


Well, that might be the problem. THE SKULL is not a Hammer film. It was produced by Amicus.

 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2018 - 8:02 PM   
 By:   MusicUnite   (Member)

Perhaps, it might be better to say that Lutyens was the first composer to use the cimbalom in a horror score.

It has been 12 years since this thread was opened and sadly there are still no classical or film music recordings of Lutyens work (other than what existed prior to 2006). It really is a shame.

I fear this is all we will get to hear of her great film work.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs3T-t417YhSJr5_mcJ4asVjU8W5vEMyZ

Jay

 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2018 - 10:23 AM   
 By:   mgh   (Member)

A suite from The Skull can be found on a compilation called Love From A Stranger on NMC. In addition to the Lutyens suite is Britten's Love From a Stranger, Roberto Gerhard's This Sporting Life, and Richard Rodney Bennett's The Return of the Soldier.
https://www.amazon.com/Love-Stranger-Four-British-Scores/dp/B00022XECC/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1519579261&sr=1-1&keywords=love+from+a+stranger

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2018 - 12:05 PM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

It has been 12 years since this thread was opened and sadly there are still no classical or film music recordings of Lutyens work (other than what existed prior to 2006). It really is a shame.
Jay


I agree, Jay, ... there should be more albums produced featuring the music of Lutyens.
While I haven't located any discs since 2006 with an all-Lutyens program, there have been (since 2006) compilation albums which include a work by Elisabeth L., such as this Chandos CD (which I have not yet heard):

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2018 - 1:22 PM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

David Huckvale is no doubt referring to the instrument being used as part of the dramatic score rather than source music. He also refers to the it being used in "The Ipcress File" and also "King Rat" but says they were released after "The Skull" although he's probably referring to the UK release dates.


According to the IMDB. the UK release of THE IPCRESS FILE (18 March 1965) was 18 months before that of THE SKULL (4 NOVEMBER 1966). It seems odd to me that THE SKULL, being a British production, would be released in the UK later than in the U.S. (25 August 1965), but even if you assume that THE SKULL was released in the UK in August 1965 (as Wikipedia seems to), THE IPCRESS FILE was still released 5 months earlier.

This may seem picky, but if Huckvale is claiming a "first" for something, I think you have to be picky about it.


Bear in mind, also, that a film's release date is no indication of the dates on which its scoring sessions transpired.
It is a possibility that the studio recordings for The Skull took place before those on The Ipcress File, even though The Ipcress File may have been shown prior the The Skull's premiere screening.

As for being picky ... is not the cimbalom heard within Humphrey Searle's The Haunting (1963) and/or Henry Mancini's Experiment in Terror (1962)?
Both of these occurred prior to 1965 - making this mini-debate on 1965 Lutyens vs. 1965 Barry seem neither were the 'first'.

I also think one should consider vintage Hungarian-language cinema, as well, before making claim that the cimbalom wasn't in film music until '65. smile
[regarding just only one Hungarian film director - Károly Makk - there's enough films by him from the 1950s and early 1960s to have been scored by at least 4 composers: Ferenc Szabó (1902–1969), Ottó Vincze (1906–1984), Szabolcs Fényes (1912–1986), & István Sárközy (1920–2002).
Not having access to any these early Makk films or their music, who can verify that none of these 4 composers utilized the cimbalom in their scores?]

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2018 - 9:34 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

Powerhouse Films in the UK have just released an impressive Blu-ray box set of Hammer films (Hammer Volume Two; Criminal Intent). I've never thought much of Hammer's horror films but I've always enjoyed their 50s/60s thrillers and psychological dramas.

The box set includes the rarely seen film "Never Take Sweets From a Stranger" scored by Elisabeth Lutyens and amongst the extras is a 43-minute appreciation of Lutyens by writer and musicologist David Huckvale. It's one of the best documentaries about a composer working in film which I've seen. Sitting at the piano and providing numerous musical examples, Huckvale offers a scholarly examination of Lutyens music and how it works within, not only "Never take Sweets...", but from various other films she composed for Hammer.



I adore Elisabeth Lutyens' music! NEVER TAKE SWEETS FROM STRANGERS is an absolutely superb film which has lost none of its power today. It's quite uncomfortable viewing, actually. It might even be more uncomfortable to watch today than it was back then, due to our awareness of how real the events are/ were. The Lutyens score is excellent of course.

Having said that, I think her most effective work is for the aforementioned (Amicus) film THE SKULL. The second half of the film has virtually no dialogue, and is carried almost in its entirety by the imaginative visuals, Peter Cushing's wonderful performance, and Lutyens' chilly and highly imaginative scoring. It's a pity that the 20-min re-recording sounds so distant.

Such a fan of THE SKULL am I that I visited Lindisfarne Castle last year just to see how Lizzie Lutyens' dad had redesigned it in the early 20th Century. Oh, and because CUL-DE-SAC was filmed there, which is one of my favourite films of all time.

 
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