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 Posted:   Jul 11, 2007 - 5:32 PM   
 By:   henry   (Member)

I love this score and would like to see an expanded version soon. I sure hope Conti scores the sequel The Topkapi Affair. I'm relly looking forward to it. What do you guys think of the score?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2007 - 5:43 PM   
 By:   Morlock1   (Member)

Love it. Started a thread about it a few months back. Wonderful caper score. love the piano.

 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2007 - 5:57 PM   
 By:   Sarge   (Member)

Thomas Crown Affair and Avenging Angelo need a legitimate, complete release. They're both terrific, and show a side of Conti's talents we don't often get to see.

Rocky notwithstanding, Conti is sorely underrated. I'm very pleased that so much of his work has been released lately. I hope his reputation will be enhanced by it.

 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2007 - 5:59 PM   
 By:   scorechaser   (Member)

I love the movie. The score is very good. Very relaxed, has a certain summer-feeling to it, which I like. Sting´s version of the song is dreadful, though.

Philipp

np: "the bourne supremacy" (john powell)

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2007 - 6:12 PM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

I heard the CD of this a few years ago, didn't like it at all. IIRC the song half was pretty bad too...

Interestingly, I remember someone (a review of it, I assume) talking about how Legrand had scored the original, and made it a point to mention how he wrote a much better score -- when just the opposite happened in the progression of Bond movies.

-Joshua

 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2007 - 7:28 PM   
 By:   Hercule Platini   (Member)

I love what little there is on the official CD - if there was ever a score to tampt one bootwards... It's an MGM film, or is it tied up with Pangea (the label that released the existent CD)? Is that something to do with Sting?

I saw the McQueen original a few weeks back and hated pretty much everything about it. It's dated horribly. And Legrand's score is a mess; there's one scene very early on with one guy in a hotel corridor and there's harsh jazz blaring out. Maybe it worked thirty-odd years ago but it's unbearable today. The Brosnan remake gets pretty much everything right.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 2:54 AM   
 By:   Toby The Swede   (Member)

Thomas Crown Affair and Avenging Angelo need a legitimate, complete release. They're both terrific, and show a side of Conti's talents we don't often get to see.

Rocky notwithstanding, Conti is sorely underrated. I'm very pleased that so much of his work has been released lately. I hope his reputation will be enhanced by it.


Avenging Angelo and Rocky are Stallone films so I was just wondering how many Stallone films are Conti up to now? I think it must be 10 Stallone films he scored or am I wrong?

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 4:07 AM   
 By:   Sarge   (Member)

Avenging Angelo and Rocky are Stallone films so I was just wondering how many Stallone films are Conti up to now? I think it must be 10 Stallone films he scored or am I wrong?

1. Rocky
2. FIST
3. Paradise Alley
4. Rocky II
5. Victory
6. Rocky III
7. Lock Up
8. Rocky V
9. Avenging Angelo
10. Rocky Balboa


 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 6:14 AM   
 By:   follow me   (Member)

Maybe it worked thirty-odd years ago but it's unbearable today.

What happened? Have you got a new pair of ears in the meantime ? confused

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 10:07 AM   
 By:   Morlock1   (Member)

Huh? Films age. Film scores age too. What's the question?

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 10:19 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

This is probably the only Bill Conti score I can't seem to get into. On the other hand, I hear the disc is a rather poor representation of the score, including a rather wonderful instrumental variation on "Windmills In My Mind"? Having not seen the movie, I cannot account for it beyond what I have on CD.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 10:37 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)


...I saw the McQueen original a few weeks back and hated pretty much everything about it. It's dated horribly. And Legrand's score is a mess; there's one scene very early on with one guy in a hotel corridor and there's harsh jazz blaring out. Maybe it worked thirty-odd years ago but it's unbearable today...


Couldn't possibly disagree more. The original is all about style, it's like a 1968 Playboy come to life - especially the chess scene which looks like a Cutty Sark ad. The score is perfect. It is the world I choose to live in.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 10:39 AM   
 By:   ahem   (Member)

I love what little there is on the official CD - if there was ever a score to tampt one bootwards... It's an MGM film, or is it tied up with Pangea (the label that released the existent CD)? Is that something to do with Sting?

I saw the McQueen original a few weeks back and hated pretty much everything about it. It's dated horribly. And Legrand's score is a mess; there's one scene very early on with one guy in a hotel corridor and there's harsh jazz blaring out. Maybe it worked thirty-odd years ago but it's unbearable today. The Brosnan remake gets pretty much everything right.


Split screens and some of the score aside, I don't agree. I'll take Jewison and Haskell Wexler together over pretty much anything made today. Then of course there's Faye Dunaway in her physical prime...

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 11:56 AM   
 By:   follow me   (Member)

Huh? Films age. Film scores age too. What's the question?

I don´t believe in that - at least not in that radical way as mentioned in the original message ("it's unbearable today"). Why should they age? Why should the music be UNBEARABLE today? That´s rather ridiculous! The music is the same as 30 years ago. The only thing that ages is yourself smile
Obviously it´s only a manipulation of the brain by things like "fashion", what´s "in" at the moment, what you think sounds "modern" = what some "masterminds" tell you is modern.
Has Mozart´s music aged? Has Beethoven´s music aged? No - because the "masterminds" (music experts) tell you that this music has not aged, because it is classical music, great music...
So why should Legrand´s music have aged? Only because it sounds different to todays dull, unimaginative scores (and I don´t mean Conti´s score, which I like myself)?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 1:35 PM   
 By:   Morlock1   (Member)

What you're talking about is music as music. This is a film score talked about here. I have never seen the original or heard Legrand's score (aside from the song, of course). Whether or not the music has aged is another matter. But certainly film scoring sensibilites have changed. What was once the norm is now incedibly tacky and doesn't do what a film score is supposed to do. Films age. Film scores age. I was just last night watching THE TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE. Great movie, one of my favorites. Steiner's score now seems like quite a bad film score. It doesn't help the film. It is loud, melodramatic, often doesn't fit what's on screen.
This touches on the larger question of viewing older films. Are supposed to adjust ourselves to the films, or is it right to expect a film/score to age? I personally believe that it is not really that important. Honesty comes through. Real, good, movie making will work no matter when, even if it might be impeded by the time it was made. And the same wit the score. If one can honestly believe that a composer cared about the film, and cared about how the score accompanied it, and really though about the music he was writing, than it should work no matter when. Hence, with some golden age scores, I love them in the film, they are perfect. With others they just sound and feel wrong.

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 2:56 PM   
 By:   Hercule Platini   (Member)

The original TCA is, as Onya puts it, all about style. But it's a 1968 style and it doesn't work nearly four decades on.

Yes films do age, as does the music. But some age better. A few days ago I watched From Russia With Love again, and barring a few duff scoring moments (mainly the wildly inappropriate use of the James Bond Theme blaring over a scene of Bond looking over his hotel room) the film still works superbly. It's a product of its time (which is even earlier than Thomas Crown), but feels timeless. Crown doesn't. Crown looks and feels like 1968.

A modern film that deliberately sets out to be cool usually fails by dating itself so precisely to "the now" that it's a historical relic just a few years later; just as topical and satirical humour works today but requires a lot of context and explanation to work afterwards. True cool, real cool, is effortless and timeless. You can go back to McQueen and, say, Bullitt, which wasn't made to be cool. Crown was. And it probably was cool at the time. The split-screen was a new and exciting device but 40 years on itjust looks silly; there doesn't appear to be any reason for it but "being cool". And the score probably worked at the time. But it doesn't work now.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 3:58 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Crown looks and feels like 1968.


You're right, but the "dated" quality of many films only serves to make them that much more enjoyable and compelling.

For example, there is an entire subculture that attempts to recreate the style of late 60s/early 70 Playboy, as exemplified in films like "Thomas Crown," "Camille 2000," "Danger: Diabolik," etc. They attempt to do this through their clothing, music, furniture, art, decor, cocktails, and whatever else conjures this "reality."

With postmodernism and culture continually being recycled, it becomes subjective and problematic to say what is and isn't "dated."

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 6:05 PM   
 By:   follow me   (Member)

But certainly film scoring sensibilites have changed. What was once the norm is now incedibly tacky and doesn't do what a film score is supposed to do.

Human beings have not changed since then (maybe in another 1000000 years they will - if they still exist).
So - if it worked THEN why should it not work NOW? O.K. maybe some things did not work "then" in the first place or - for some reason - YOU suddenly THINK that it´s not right anymore (you have been influenced)...it´s obviously all a matter of habit! Your score listening habits have changed! The score itself is as good (or as bad) as it has always been. I guess if you try to forget "how a filmscore has to be" nowadays and allow yourself to mentally travel back to the sixties you should be able to enjoy older scores again (or you would not have liked this same score in the past either)...

What´s modern in fashion? Those things always change. What once was modern is now old-fashioned BUT maybe will be modern AGAIN in the future (depending on the will of some fashion guru). Fashion designer X says wearing "Y" is not "in" anymore and soon people will feel that "Y" is old-fashioned, looks dated. Fashion designer Z brings back "Y" 15 years later - hocus-pocus it feels modern again!

I have a feeling that it will be similar with filmscores. Todays scores do not really sound "modern" to me. Hey, symphonic music is rather an "old hat" even when mixed with electronic components. Soon the scores of today will sound old-fashioned (especially this wall-to-wall concept which often turns a thriller almost into a musical). Wouldn´t a movie completely WITHOUT music be much more realistic and therefore be much more "modern"? Where do all the strings come from when Bruce Willis hunts the villain through the streets of the city? Isn´t that rather ludicrous and just as "loud, melodramatic, and doesn't fit what's on screen" as the music of THE TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE?


 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 6:20 PM   
 By:   Morlock1   (Member)

No, no it is not. First of all, of course people have changed. And OF COURSE people's sensibilities have changed. What you're saying is ludicrous. What worked in 1968 or 1949 may not work now. That is true of many things, movies and music around them.
I firmly believe that, in many things, there are changes, whether for good or for ill.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2007 - 6:32 PM   
 By:   follow me   (Member)

No, no it is not. First of all, of course people have changed. And OF COURSE people's sensibilities have changed. What you're saying is ludicrous. What worked in 1968 or 1949 may not work now. That is true of many things, movies and music around them.
I firmly believe that, in many things, there are changes, whether for good or for ill.


Sorry - I still like TTCA by Michel Legrand and it still works for me - obviously I have forgotten to change big grin
(and I don´t feel that jazz-influenced filmmusic sounds dated)

 
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