FSM Board: Music Replacement-"The Fugitive" S2

FSM HOME

SEARCH FSM


LOG IN

Forgot Login?

Register



	General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion
	Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board


Search Terms:
Search Within:	search tips

You must log in or register to post.

Go to page:

Non-Film Score Discussion: Music Replacement-"The Fugitive" S2

1 2 3 NEXT LAST

Last Post


	Posted:	Jun 10, 2008 - 2:08 PM
	By:	Eric Paddon (Member)


	Posted:	Jun 10, 2008 - 2:31 PM
	By:	Jim Phelps (Member)

So then the underscore from the show is gone??? Removing expensive pop music is one thing for a show that doesn't rely on it, but for the original underscore to be gone is absurd!


	Posted:	Jun 10, 2008 - 2:37 PM
	By:	Eric Paddon (Member)

That's what my understanding is, and they even hired a current composer to redo the background score if I read the thread correct (I can't post there alas because of the jerks who run that place, but it's still a great place to read).

First thing I did was scour Amazon for some old VHS releases of S2 episodes where the music was intact, and I managed to find two with a total of 3 S2 episodes.


	Posted:	Jun 10, 2008 - 3:32 PM
	By:	riotengine (Member)

This really sucks, if true. I wanna wait to get more info. If it is true, I likely won't be buying season 2.

Greg Espinoza


	Posted:	Jun 10, 2008 - 3:34 PM
	By:	Eric Paddon (Member)

Were it not for the fact that my father really wants to see more of these episodes I might have contemplated returning my set that I bought earlier today before I realized this had happened.

I know it was at times odd to hear "Twilight Zone" cues in these episodes, but they worked well in the series.


	Posted:	Jun 10, 2008 - 7:07 PM
	By:	Oldsmith (Member)

Wow, they replaced the music and even went so far as to add in music credits that look just like the titles? This is seriously effed up. Why can't CBS use music from the CBS music library??!!


	Posted:	Jun 10, 2008 - 8:19 PM
	By:	Eric Paddon (Member)

It's baffling to me. We're not even hearing the cues where it was Rugolo's main theme being used in the underscore which theoretically should not have been replaced even if there was a rights hang-up on music originally composed for other series. Old TZ music is part of the CBS Library so that should not have been affected, but I could see where this could come up with music composed for something like "Outer Limits".

I have to admit, I'm in a sort of advantageous position compared to diehard Fugitive fans in that I am not someone who knows the episodes well to know what the right cues should be for a specific episode, other than early S1 episodes which are unaffected, and the last episode. The diehards I know are tearing their hair out right now.

As for the new music itself, I've watched two episodes so far and low-key quiet cues are okay, but the ominous bombastic cues they composed for this are very overdone. They were trying to make it sound appropriate for a 60s TV show, but came up a bit short there.


	Posted:	Jun 10, 2008 - 8:30 PM
	By:	Oldsmith (Member)

I'm just soooo tired of all the edits, changes, substitutions and "improvements" these companies keep making to these shows. Enough. Why can't they just restore the prints backto their original quality and release them? No cropping for widescreen, no new "stereo" sound effects, no enhanced music, just put the damned show on disc as we remember it.

It's one thing to no want to pay a shitload of money for song clearances, but the rest of it is senseless. I gotta draw the line somewhere and this is it. I love the show, but I'll get by without it. Fans are going to freak. Who knows, maybe they'll re-release it "fixed" like the company who screwed up Route 66.


	Posted:	Jun 10, 2008 - 8:46 PM
	By:	Eric Paddon (Member)


	Posted:	Jun 10, 2008 - 10:39 PM
	By:	riotengine (Member)


	Posted:	Jun 10, 2008 - 10:43 PM
	By:	Eric Paddon (Member)

All well and good, but just what are the legal issues that are at stake? "Route 66" was a case of a screwup, pure and simple that could easily be rectified without having to call on the lawyers. What we really need is an explanation of why these changes were made, and if it's a litigation issue, then the only advice the fans can give CBS/Paramount is "don't release this until you get it resolved."


	Posted:	Jun 10, 2008 - 10:47 PM
	By:	riotengine (Member)


	Posted:	Jun 10, 2008 - 11:22 PM
	By:	Ford A. Thaxton (Member)

Here's another post from HTF:

"I spoke to one of my contacts at CBS/Paramount (not someone involved in the DVD department) and they looked up the show on the computer for me. The only notes they had on the shows said "ALL ORIGINAL MUSIC CHANGED DUE TO LEGAL ISSUES"."

That's a load of CRAP!

I strongly suspect that the DVD folks failed to understand that the scores for year 2 were drawn from Pete Rugolo's library written for the show and the cues from the CBS PRODUCTION LIBRARY.

And Since CBS is part of VIACOM, THEY OWN IT LOCK STOCK AND BARREL.

I know that about 2 years ago someone at CBS asked me about the music for THE FUGITIVE and told them this..

I can't see CBS not wanting to work something out with PARAMOUNT, since this exact same music for Season 2 was USED IN SEASON 1 which is out already on DVD.

I've sent a few emails to some of the folks at CBS asking about this.

I hope to hear back from them shortly.

Ford A. Thaxton


	Posted:	Jun 11, 2008 - 12:41 AM
	By:	quiller007 (Member)

This is an OUTRAGE!!!!! I've waited 40
years for one of my alltime favorite
shows to finally get released on dvd,
and CBS / Paramount serves us this shit?
Absolutely UNEXCEPTABLE!

Thanks, Eric...for bringing this to
everyone's attention. And Thanks, Ford
for looking into the matter. Please
keep us posted of anything you find out
from Paramount?

Den


	Posted:	Jun 11, 2008 - 1:28 AM
	By:	Stefan Miklos (Member)

Those of you who have old tapes of this show had better hold onto them. When I read this, I really did a double-take because this goes way beyond any matter of music replacement underscore for a TV series I've ever seen in my life.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/sd-dvd-tv-shows-tv-movies/273207-fugitive-season-two-volume-1-reviews.html

The situation is insane. Why in hell removing the original stock music? Doing that cost a fortune!
I am glad I only like the first season which is intact, right?

Plus, you can add the fact that Paramount release all their vintage series with the warning: "edited network" copies.

What's the next step?


	Posted:	Jun 11, 2008 - 5:09 AM
	By:	Oldsmith (Member)

You know, I never realized it was possible to completely remove the score from an old TV show like this. Evem The Twilight Zone iso score tracks have some faint echoes of dialog in some of the episodes on DVD.

Very little of this makes sense to me. As Ford said, the music in season 2 was by Rugolo or from the CBS library. Now in the 4th year, when they started using scores from The Outer Limits (which was on ABC), I could see an issue developing. But isn't music commissioned as background score, written and recorded specifically for the show, as much a part of the show as the acting and sound effects? Isn't whatever music written in this regard owned by whoever ownes the shows?

This is an amazing situation, one I hope to see rectified and also shown as an example of how badly shows on DVD are being handled now.


	Posted:	Jun 11, 2008 - 5:12 AM
	By:	Oldsmith (Member)


	Posted:	Jun 11, 2008 - 8:55 AM
	By:	Stefan Miklos (Member)

I am glad I only like the first season which is intact, right?

Unlike most shows of the era, The Fugitive didn't change much in the first few years. In fact, until the mid-thirdseason, it maintained a consistent level of high quality in its writing, acting and production value. I'm kind of curious why you only like the first season then. It's not like they gave Kimble a long lost son, made it a comedy or went into color that year.

What was it about the last three seasons that you didn't like?

I enjoy all seasons but:
1. the first season featured a unique opening title
2. the first season had darker stories and photography
3. season 4 had a brand new production team and the level dropped. The stories tended to stretch and lack of the bleak and dramatical impact of the black and white seasons.


	Posted:	Jun 11, 2008 - 9:48 AM
	By:	Oldsmith (Member)

I enjoy all seasons but:
1. the first season featured a unique opening title

True, I actually liked the longer version heard in the early weeks of the series. The Credits in the last three years were nice though. The narration is extremely memorable.

2. the first season had darker stories and photography

The first season had 4 outstanding scripts scripts by Stanford Whitmore, who wrote the pilot episode and the Little Egypt flashback. He really helped flesh out Kimble. It seemed that more episodes took place at night, but the stories remained pretty dark in the second and third seasons. They were more downbeat sometimes than I expected from a show of this vintage. Overall, the first seaosn had the most sustained level of excellence and I think Whitmore had something to do with that.

3. season 4 had a brand new production team and the level dropped. The stories tended to stretch and lack of the bleak and dramatical impact of the black and white seasons.

Totally agreed. The 4th season was a huge drop in quality. The Fugitive was not suited for color and the writing suffered as well. The final two parter, although excellent and legendary, had logic errors and situations that might well have been avoided if done by the people who were in charge in the first season. Also, there was way to much Fred Johnson.


	Posted:	Jun 11, 2008 - 4:06 PM
	By:	Eric Paddon (Member)

Well, the people at that HTF thread where this news broke really ended up setting off a few sticks of dynamite the way they decided to bombard a Paramount official who undoubtedly had nothing to do with the decision, with all kinds of hate mail.

It's been clarified that no Outer Limits cues were involved in S2 so that means we're talking about (1) Rugolo's composed for the series cues that were recycled endlessly and (2) the CBS library cues written by Herrmann and Goldsmith. And I have to agree, I am at a loss as to how ANY of this could have legal issues. What Rugolo composed should be unaffected, because that was commissioned for the show. And the only way the CBS Library cues could be affected is if "Fugitive" were a show no longer under their corporate banner, but that too is not the case.

CBS/Paramount though should be ashamed of themselves for offering no heads-up about this (their pacakging just has the usual "some music may be changed" disclaimer) and it didn't help that this wholesale music replacement somehow escaped the notice of EVERY major on-line TV on DVD reviewer. A lot of people bought or pre-ordered this set thinking nothing like this happened, and but for the "Fugitive" experts at HTF, even I wouldn't have noticed.

Non-Film Score Discussion: Music Replacement-"The Fugitive" S2

First Post



	General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion
	Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board

You must log in or register to post.

Go to page: