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 Posted:   Sep 1, 2008 - 2:26 AM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

Lukas.....I have been greatly enjoying the MGM Westerns Box over the last few days of listening.

Wonderful job! I'm always astounded at how well you manage to pull together this very disparate "Golden Age" kind of material and make it all sound palatable to our ears today.


As I was listening to ESCAPE FROM FORT BRAVO tonight, it struck me that something was missing from the Main Title cue, however.

I went back to one of my TCM off-air DVDs and played the main title section and, sure enough, there IS something missing:

Between approximately 0:54 and 1:08 (in the mixed film's Main Title and your cue) there is a final choral overlay of "Yellow Stripes" which has an uplifting, rousing ending to the title just before the music goes into the Foreward. On your cue the underscore is there, but the choral work isn't.

Since this final overlay piece is missing from the cue in your cd presentation, I'm wondering if it has been lost and, if so, whether a replacement section could have been stripped in from the actual final stereo mix of reel one. (Maybe I'll try doing that myself.)

I really miss it as the final tag to the Main Title after hearing it that way for fifty years! smile

Otherwise, great job on the box, as always!

 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2008 - 8:11 AM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)


Oops. No, just a mistake. That choral track was entirely lifted from a previous take anyway.

I'll try to fix and add it to something else.
lk

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2008 - 1:59 PM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

.....Oops. No, just a mistake. That choral track was entirely lifted from a previous take anyway.....


Thanks for your prompt response, Lukas.

I hope I didn't sound negative or accusatory in my post. It's just that these scores are like old friends you've known for years, and it's always difficult to meet them again and find them changed. smile



.....I'll try to fix and add it to something else.....

Perfect!!! How about adding it as a single cue in yet another MGM westerns box set!!! big grin

 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2008 - 3:38 PM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)


Now taking requests for further M-G-M westerns...

Lukas

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2008 - 4:03 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

There don't seem to be many unreleased MGM western scores left from the 50's. Some of Jeff Alexander's and a few scattered others, none of which I am familiar with:

Stars In My Crown (1950)– Adolph Deutsch
The Red Badge of Courage (1951) - Bronislau Kaper
Lone Star (1952) – David Buttolph
Many Rivers To Cross (1955) – Cyril J. Mockridge
Gun Glory (1957) – Jeff Alexander
The Sheepman (1958) – Jeff Alexander

And I can't think of anything from the 60's.

40's anyone?

 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2008 - 4:18 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

The Red Badge of Courage (1951) - Bronislau Kaper

Isn't that a Civil War film?

 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2008 - 4:22 PM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

There don't seem to be many unreleased MGM western scores left from the 50's. Some of Jeff Alexander's and a few scattered others, none of which I am familiar with:

Stars In My Crown (1950)– Adolph Deutsch
The Red Badge of Courage (1951) - Bronislau Kaper
Lone Star (1952) – David Buttolph
Many Rivers To Cross (1955) – Cyril J. Mockridge
Gun Glory (1957) – Jeff Alexander
The Sheepman (1958) – Jeff Alexander

And I can't think of anything from the 60's.

40's anyone?


There was an uncredited Jeff Alexander score for "Westward the Women". It's been 40 years since I last saw it, so I can't say how much (or how good the) music was in it.


Personally, I'd love to see a couple of tracks on the Rhino "How the West Was Won" get a new mix...just to align some of the miscues.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2008 - 4:35 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Duplicate post.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2008 - 4:36 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

The Red Badge of Courage (1951) - Bronislau Kaper

Isn't that a Civil War film?


Yes. So was "The Horse Soldiers" in the first FSM western box.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2008 - 6:26 PM   
 By:   Stephen Lister   (Member)

A few more suggestions:

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL SHERIFF - JEFF ALEXANDER
DAY OF THE EVIL GUN - JEFF ALEXANDER
THE ROUNDERS - JEFF ALEXANDER
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES - HARRY SUKMAN
HEAVEN WITH A GUN - JOHNNY MANDEL
ACROSS THE WIDE MISSOURI - DAVID RAKSIN
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL GUNFIGHTER - JACK ELLIOTT & ALLYN FERGUSON
THE HUNTING PARTY - RIZ ORTOLANI
VALDEZ IS COMING - CHARLES GROSS
THE SPIKES GANG - FRED KARLIN
CATLOW (original tracks) - ROY BUDD

 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2008 - 7:33 PM   
 By:   George Komar   (Member)

Personally, I'd love to see a couple of tracks on the Rhino "How the West Was Won" get a new mix...just to align some of the miscues.

Not a bad idea! In particular, the Overture and the Shenandoah sequence.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2008 - 8:03 PM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

.....A few more suggestions:

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL SHERIFF - JEFF ALEXANDER
DAY OF THE EVIL GUN - JEFF ALEXANDER
THE ROUNDERS - JEFF ALEXANDER
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES - HARRY SUKMAN
HEAVEN WITH A GUN - JOHNNY MANDEL
ACROSS THE WIDE MISSOURI - DAVID RAKSIN
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL GUNFIGHTER - JACK ELLIOTT & ALLYN FERGUSON
THE HUNTING PARTY - RIZ ORTOLANI
VALDEZ IS COMING - CHARLES GROSS
THE SPIKES GANG - FRED KARLIN
CATLOW (original tracks) - ROY BUDD.....



Of this list SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL SHERIFF, SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL GUNFIGHTER, THE HUNTING PARTY, VALDEZ IS COMING, and THE SPIKES GANG are United Artists (MGM/UA) releases and would not appear in an MGM Westerns box set.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2008 - 8:19 PM   
 By:   Stephen Lister   (Member)

If they are MGM/UA releases, why would that preclude them from being on an MGM box set? Many of the scores on FSM's recent MGM TREASURY were United Artists releases.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2008 - 9:28 PM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

.....If they are MGM/UA releases, why would that preclude them from being on an MGM box set?.....

Because the MGM we have been talking about is the "old" MGM, now controlled by Turner/Warner, with material from THAT library. United Artists pictures and scores are controlled by the "new" MGM---MGM Entertainment Co.---and have nothing to do with the "old" MGM.


.....Many of the scores on FSM's recent MGM TREASURY were United Artists releases.....

ALL of the scores on FSM's recent MGM TREASURY were United Artists (or MGM/UA) releases. It is called the "MGM TREASURY" because MGM is the corporate name of the "new" MGM---MGM Entertainment Company---which is the successor to the United Artists library.




I know it's complicated, but we've been over this distinction----"old" MGM films up to 1986 = Turner/Warner, United Artists films and MGM films AFTER 1986 = MGM Entertainment Company-----again and again and again and again and again over the years here.

Lukas does not cross pollinate between different suppliers for his individual releases. It's probably a licensing and legal clearance thing.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2008 - 4:06 AM   
 By:   Stephen Lister   (Member)

(sound of forehead being slapped)

I actually knew all that ... but it was the end of a very long day, capped by a birthday celebration, and my brain wasn't firing on all cylinders smile

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2008 - 7:08 AM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)


I know it's complicated, but we've been over this distinction again and again and again and again and again over the years here.


And we'll go over it again and again and again and again in the future, I'm sure. And since this is the first time I've actually read it, it's good someone asked. Since the search feature is practually valueless (and even if it wasn't), reminders of information presents no harm and old time Message Board Veterans shouldn't be impatient with someone asking a question that's been asked over the years. Sometimes people will ask old questions, it's the nature of the format.

Even if done indirectly, making one feel self conscious about asking questions prevents questions from being asked, causing misinformation in the future.

I'm now climing down off my pompous, arrogant soapbox and returning you to our regularly schedule program.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2008 - 10:38 AM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

.....(sound of forehead being slapped)

I actually knew all that ... but it was the end of a very long day, capped by a birthday celebration, and my brain wasn't firing on all cylinders.....



I kind of suspected you knew all this but weren't concentrating, Stephen---you're an old-timer around here.

I'm sorry I was so curt with you, but we DO talk about this MGM and UA distinction with regularity on the Board---at least several times already this year---and it gets to be tiresome to point it out on a regular basis. People seem to understand the no Paramount, no Columbia, no Universal session masters availability problems, but the MGM and UA separation somehow eludes them.

In the end, Lukas has to select grouped titles from things that are available to him license-wise.

Though we wish it were, this is not a candy store where we can usually buy a pound of candy, and mix-and-match the assortment. smile

But this has wonderful advantages for those of us who are really interested in all kinds of scores and composers, because Lukas can select a few titles/composers to anchor a set, and fill in with excellent but unknown or obscure things, which I'm sure he thinks we might enjoy. The "joy of discovery" and all, you know.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2008 - 11:08 AM   
 By:   TonyJ   (Member)


Stothart's score to The Sea of Grass (1947) is outstanding and would be a worthy addition to a future MGM Western Box release (if the musical elements still exist).

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 5, 2008 - 2:38 PM   
 By:   TonyJ   (Member)


Another suggestion for future MGM Western Box (assuming the musical elements exist): NORTHWEST PASSAGE, a classic movie with a score by Stothart that is pretty outstanding

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 5, 2008 - 3:38 PM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)

The box of UA LP releases was called THE MGM SOUNDTRACK TREASURY. So I suppose a box of LP's from the MGM label would be called THE WARNER SOUNTRACK TREASURY, so it might as well contain Warner LP's as well.

 
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