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 Posted:   Jul 6, 2009 - 7:29 AM   
 By:   David Sones (Allardyce)   (Member)



I revisited WATERWORLD recently. It's been a long time since I've seen it or listened to the score, and I was reminded of how exciting and wonderful Howard's score is! That theme is infectious and every time it occurs during the action sequences, one can't help but feel uplifted and energized by what's going on. Every variation of the theme works beautifully, particularly the slower version during the end credits. For me, the piece entitled "Swimming" is still as moving as ever.

I would hope that there are fans of this score then and now. As for the film, I know many hated it, but I still can't figure out why. It was splashy, fun entertainment that delivered the goods, plus I liked Costner's character, sort of an "anti-hero-fish". Why is Mad Max a classic but this one is considered crap? I dunno.

Long live the score!

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2009 - 7:34 AM   
 By:   SheriffJoe   (Member)

I would have to agree with you for the most part. The film is, for me, on par with Mad Max, which is to say that it was fun, but I wouldn't consider it a classic. The score is, however, absolutely gorgeous!!

Joe

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2009 - 7:38 AM   
 By:   mark ford   (Member)

Allardyce. I actually loved the movie and JNH's score is on of my favorites from the last 15 years or so. And when I think about the score, I'm always drawn to the swimming cue as a standout. It's magical, colorful and just plain beautiful. I'm with you buddy!

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2009 - 7:51 AM   
 By:   David Sones (Allardyce)   (Member)

Allardyce. I actually loved the movie and JNH's score is on of my favorites from the last 15 years or so. And when I think about the score, I'm always drawn to the swimming cue as a standout. It's magical, colorful and just plain beautiful. I'm with you buddy!

Cool! Yes, the Swimming cue is really extraordinary and it demonstrated Howard's versatility. At times the score reminded me of both Williams and Goldsmith and even Rosza here and there! The score elevated the film immensely.

My two favorite lines (from Hopper, of course):

"Well, it's the gentleman guppie! You know you're like a turd that won't flush."

"How 'bout a cigarette? Never too early to start!"

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2009 - 8:12 AM   
 By:   mark ford   (Member)

One of my favorite moments in the film is when The Deacon, Dennis Hopper, has that goofy fake, painted eyeball and first asks the various toadies what they think about it and they all say it looks great and then asks a kid what he thinks to get an honest opinion and the kid says it "Looks like shit." and Hopper agrees. Also later it pops out of his head rolling down the floor. Funny stuff with Hopper throughout the movie. Let's toast to St. Joe!

Again, a gorgeous, rousing score and another example of a replacement score where you can't imagine anything else being used in the film. One of my all time JNH favorites.

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2009 - 8:16 AM   
 By:   David Sones (Allardyce)   (Member)

Again, a gorgeous, rousing score and another example of a replacement score where you can't imagine anything else being used in the film.

GASP! I did not know that. Whose score was replaced?

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2009 - 8:17 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

The film blows (one of the problems is that Costner's Mariner character is just a DICK), but the combination of Dean Semler's photography and James Newton Howard's score make it actually worth watching (when it's in HD, of course).

Mark Isham did a score and it was thrown out at the last minute (but it's his music playing on the music box when Tina Majorino finds it in her dead parents' hut or whatever).

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2009 - 9:28 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

This is - and has always been - my favourite Howard score and soundtrack. I do, in fact, consider it his magnum opus! The versatility - from the swashbuckling adventure music to the moody music for the swimming scene (or other exotic scenarios) to the intense action music to the awe-and-wonder music for the underwater scene. It's just a thrill of a ride from beginning to end. And close to a PERFECT album presentation.

I like the film, too. VERY entertaining despite a certain "camp" factor that was more common in 80's genre movies.

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2009 - 9:48 AM   
 By:   David Sones (Allardyce)   (Member)

This is - and has always been - my favourite Howard score and soundtrack. I do, in fact, consider it his magnum opus! The versatility - from the swashbuckling adventure music to the moody music for the swimming scene (or other exotic scenarios) to the intense action music to the awe-and-wonder music for the underwater scene. It's just a thrill of a ride from beginning to end. And close to a PERFECT album presentation.

I like the film, too. VERY entertaining despite a certain "camp" factor that was more common in 80's genre movies.


Yep on all counts!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2009 - 10:28 AM   
 By:   TJ   (Member)

A great one that went out of print far too quickly.

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2009 - 2:37 PM   
 By:   David Sones (Allardyce)   (Member)

Just remembered this other Hopper line:

"If you'll notice the arterial nature of the blood coming from the hole in my head, you can assume that we're all having a real lousy day."

BWAH HAHAHAHA!!!

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2009 - 3:53 PM   
 By:   rollon1959   (Member)

Have to agree. This is one of James Newton Howards best scores, in my opinion, and one I never tire of listening to.

 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2009 - 5:31 AM   
 By:   Althazan   (Member)

Yes, it's one of my favourite scores all time also. Never enough!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2009 - 6:48 AM   
 By:   Cryogenix   (Member)

I saw this for the first time a couple of weeks ago and enjoyed it. The music stood out as being particularly good and effective. The movie, however, seemed too passive and searching for a true direction and a purpose. I don't agree that it's on par with Mad Max (or even No Escape) because I didn't care about any of the characters in Waterworld the way I cared about and cheered for Max and Liotta (No Escape). But it is interesting for a one-time viewing. Can't imagine ever wanting to see it again, though. Costner spends too much time swinging around like a monkey.

Tripplehorn...yum!

 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2009 - 11:19 AM   
 By:   Silence Is Golden   (Member)

I agree with Shaun's assetment partially. Costner's character is just plan cold, there are a few signs that has some humanity to him. I would've prefered someone else in the starring role. Dennis Hopper almost steals the movie from him. The production design is great and the cinematography is first rate although I wonder why Director Kevin Reynolds didn't shoot it in 2:35 aspect ratio it would've taken complete advantage of it's beautiful Hawaiian locale and the ocean scenary.
JNH's score is terrific given the tight last minute rescore schedule, I heard about it took about ten days. I would love to hear Mark Isham's score to the film and as Shaun pointed it, the only remaining piece is the music box theme.

Mark Isham's rejected score is one i'm very curious to hear along with Jerry Goldsmith's rejected The Public Eye which still hasn't seen the light of day and hopefully one day it will. Maybe Isham's will surface too.

Great score by JNH nonetheless and the movie is a guilty pleasure.

 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2009 - 12:49 PM   
 By:   kingtolkien   (Member)

This is probably my favourite JNH score cd, but I think that it doesn't work too well in the film. It seems that every action piece is THE ACTION PIECE that closes the film. Musically I mean. Too bombastic from beginning to end. Great cd but in the film it is overdone!

 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2009 - 1:52 PM   
 By:   David Sones (Allardyce)   (Member)

I feel differently than most do about Costner's character. I remember many negative comments about it when it was released, and people still feel more or less the same about his character being unlikeable, a jerk, etc. To me, that was exactly how the character needed to be played. He is like a character out of mythology, known only as "The Mariner". He's been out there at sea by himself for who knows how long. No social skills, no sense of bonding with other beings, looking out for his own interests and survival as one would expect. When I first saw the film and realized that he was not going to be playing a typical hero, I was thrilled because then I didn't know what to expect from the rest of the story.

If Costner's character had been just another nice guy hero with no nastiness about him, where would the conflict be? Where would the development of his character end up? Nowhere. By being exposed to Tripplehorn and the little girl, he develops feelings and a sense of sharing that wasn't previously present, and it is this new connection with other people that makes him go to The 'Deez to get his friend back. The character evolves from the first frame to the last, and even though he returns to the sea because Dry Land "doesn't move right" (love that line), he's still been changed and affected by his experiences with people that he developed a fondness for, and vice versa. That's good storytelling and good character development, and it all plays out just right.

This was a peak period for Costner when he was developing into a strong character actor who could convincingly play different types of people as opposed to just a leading man. For all of these reasons, I love the character of The Mariner just as he is and wouldn't want him to be any other way.

 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2009 - 2:08 PM   
 By:   Sarge   (Member)

If Costner's character had been just another nice guy hero with no nastiness about him, where would the conflict be? Where would the development of his character end up? Nowhere.

He's essentially the love child of Mad Max and Sub-Mariner. Anyone who likes Max's character arc in THE ROAD WARRIOR is being a bit contradictory if they dislike The Mariner.

 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2009 - 2:19 PM   
 By:   mark ford   (Member)

I'm with you all the way on this Allardyce. The Mariner is the prototypical anti-hero. I see his character in the same light as Eastwood's "The man with no name". He was a loner and outsider who treated people with little or no respect in his attempt to survive and I felt no compassion for him either until his character evolves toward the end. But who cares if the character doesn't fit into a neat, stereotypical hero's box? Many may, but I don't! That's sort of the point. Plus as you say he does change as a result of his finally bonding with other people. It would have been a contrived Hollywood happy ending cop out if he stayed with them though because no matter what he still didn't belong which is the usual fate for any character like this. They must wander (or sail off into the sunset), alone to continue there never ending journey.

Oh, and the score is STILL great no matter!

 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2009 - 2:21 PM   
 By:   David Sones (Allardyce)   (Member)

I knew I could count on both of you to back me up on this one. smile

 
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