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This is a comments thread about Blog Post: Film Score Blog (July 2009): Oliver Nelson Works and Zigzag! by Thomas Rucki |
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I've been playing ZIGZAG a lot recently, and I think it's a great score and a wonderful example of a sound so prevalent from that period, a sound which I associate particularly with Universal TV above all, and the works of Billy Goldenberg and Gil Mellé especially. I love this score so much. Anyway, I'm just clicking away here spontaneously, so forgive me if I ramble a bit. I bought the LP of ZIGZAG way back in the late ´70s, and didn't even realize it was a "reworking" of the original music. Anyway, it quickly became one of my favourite LPs. Then, just a few weeks ago I ordered it in the FSM sale (I was interested in THE SUPER COPS too), and was absolutely amazed at just how good the original tracks are, and how different from the re-recording. It's an absolute treat to have the original tracks paired with the re-recording on one CD, because they complement each other so well. There are many parts from both which I now can't imagine being without. The original score is much more "filmic" and showcases some wonderful atmospheric stuff like the electric violin (?), gorgeous harmonics for the softer string sections, and lots of throbbing double bass for scenes of ... probably just big cars going along the road. The re-recording on the other hand, apart from the songs, includes extended versions of the percussive "driving" music, plus, perhaps logically, a lot more room for the instrumental soloists to really shine. The completely new (as in not in the film) Bossa Nova version of the Love Theme for example, has got some absolutely amazing piano work from Artie Kane on it. As Thomas said, buy this score! If you hate it, well, you can blame us. Oh, thanks for those YouTube clips as well. I'll add to this thread later with more thoughts, but for the moment I'll just say that Oliver Nelson rules the world (he actually shares the dictatorship in my universe with about ten other composers, so he ain't a true tyrant), and we want more Ollie scores on CD!
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Hi again! I don't want to derail this thread before anyone else has had the chance to post more about ZIGZAG and Oliver Nelson, but I suppose it's OK to mention the rest of the double-CD, in the unlikely event that someone will be swayed towards buying it by my opinion. I must admit I was slightly dissatisfied with Jerry Fielding's THE SUPER COPS at first, but it has definitely grown on me. A lot. It actually plays like one of those Blaxploitation soundtrack LPs we old folks used to buy, you know, where even the score tracks sound like source cues. But once I got used to that idea, I re-listened to it in a new light, and there's a whole lot of super-funky Jerry Fielding stuff to enjoy. I still find the buffoonery of a certain comical motif a little annoying, sort of more akin to HOGAN'S HEROES than anything else, but that's a very minor and personal gripe. All in all this is actually quite addictive. I feel like listening to it again now! The real surprise for me was the nearly half an hour of Fielding's episode scores for HAWKINS. There are quirky moments, but in general terms these are downright dark and fascinating pieces, as dense and serious as the composer's film work (well, except THE SUPER COPS). In fact, as LK points out in the liner notes, some of it IS actually heard in his film scores. I've mentioned before that I find Jerry Fielding endlessly intriguing when he just seems to be sitting there doing nothing, but there's an electrifying tension behind even his most seemingly static pieces, and HAWKINS is no exception. Buy this great FSM CD! You'll get two and a half hours of super-duper music (or slightly less than that if you can't quite take to the country n' western bonus tracks from THE OUTFIT). Right - who wants to talk about Oliver Nelson and ZIGZAG?
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I don't have Zigzag, but as a SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN fan I found it illuminating to hear how similar his other TV work was in the Youtube clips. Like Nelson Riddle, it appears that Oliver Nelson had a very particular sound that would show up in more than one place.
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So, Zap hasn't got ZIGZAG. Thomas and I do. That adds up to two. Was it really such a bad seller? Or do a lot of you out there actually have it, think it's rubbish, and don't want to post negative comments? Come on you crackerbarrels - out with it!
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Did you know that the complete "Longstreet" (1971/Paramount) on DVD was available in Japan? http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=MX-290S The price is "extremely" expensive: $200! Read what the customer says: I love LONGSTREET !!! 2009/03/21 Reviewer: Kit (UNITED KINGDOM) "It's a rare, classic, detective TV show from the early seventies starring James Franciscus and guess starring Bruce Lee. If you're considering purchasing, chances are you're well aware of the other details of the show. The picture quality is fantastic, seems restored even and although the sound was originally recorded in mono it's nice and clear. As for the packaging; it's a really top quality case with gorgeous artwork. If you're a fan of the show it's an essential purchase. However if you're a fan of Bruce Lee, please be aware he appears on just four episodes and only very briefly." Let's hope an American DVD edition will appear soon!
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ZIGZAG is undoubtedly the worst score that FSM has ever released, in fact it's one of the worst scores ever written for a movie, period. It's like The Muppets Big Band, coupled with Mantovani's bloody 1000 Strings, and spiced up, supposedly, by some bloke banging away on an oil drum or something. Who is this Oliver Nelson guy anyway? Ah - Jazz! That says it all. Jazz is all improvisation. I'll say this for ZIGZAG though - it does sound as if Nelson made it up as he was going along. I feel sorry for the two punters above who actually shelled out good money on this trash.
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Sorry Graham, you're wrong. It's great.
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No I'm not, it's rubbish. ZzzzzzzzzzIGZAG!
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Great! We've sparked some healthy debate!
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Well, I tried. I'm still amazed that only two people have bought this release. Did nobody buy it for THE SUPER COPS? No opinions on ZIGZAG? I suppose we won't be getting any more Oliver Nelson scores from FSM if it sold so badly. Anyway, to reiterate my opinion, the 2-CD set which FSM put out is wonderful. If you like the '70s sound so prevalent in movies (and TV) from that era, don't hesitate to buy this. I'd go as far as to say that ZIGZAG is an "obra maestra".
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Thanks Zap and Simon (and of course, Thomas for starting the thing). My overall impression is that Oliver Nelson generates indifference, and I really don't understand why. There are enough of us out there who post enthusiastic comments about scores from this era, and with a vaguely similar sound, by Lalo Schifrin, Quincy Jones etc etc, and plenty more who are fans of that kind of "bordering on jazz but not quite" music composed by Jerry Fielding, Billy Goldenberg and Dave Grusin for example. But it seems that Oliver Nelson is in the David Raksin category. If that's the case, then ZIGZAG is the equivalent of FOREVER AMBER (top-notch scores that only three people bought).
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Thanks for that link, Thomas. I don't remember reading that thread before. Right, well, even back then I understand that considerably more than three people bought this score... I calculate about maybe fifteen. But that was three and a half years ago. I wonder if the recent sale helped.
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Keep in mind that "symphonic jazz" soundtracks are for happy fews, the majority enjoys the standard orchestral soundtracks. Yes, I think that is probably quite true, sadly. And of course, when score fans think 'Oliver Nelson' (if they do) they nearly always think SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN. So until that comes out one fine day - hopefully - it seems unlikely that much more of Nelson's film and tv work will see the light of day. What a shame.
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Keep in mind that "symphonic jazz" soundtracks are for happy fews, the majority enjoys the standard orchestral soundtracks. Yes, I think that is probably quite true, sadly. And of course, when score fans think 'Oliver Nelson' (if they do) they nearly always think SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN. So until that comes out one fine day - hopefully - it seems unlikely that much more of Nelson's film and tv work will see the light of day. What a shame. Soundtrack listeners belong to a niche in the music market and symphonic jazz soundtrack listeners belong to a niche inside a niche. One tiny doll inside the big Russian nested doll if you like.
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As it is written in the original blog, jazz listeners dislike symphonic jazz soundtracks or any forms of derived jazz created in the late 60's/early 70's. So people like Nelson and Mellé are ignored by two categories of listeners: the conventional soundtrack aficionados and the jazz purists. In short, the jazz addicts will remember Nelson and Mellé for their "acoustic" small formation works and the other audience will simply refuse them because they are too experimental or groovy.
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I see what you mean, Thomas, but that still doesn't explain why Mellé and Nelson are ignored, and yet Lalo Schifrin, Quincy Jones, Jerry Fielding etc, plus some "crossover" works by Dave Grusin, David Shire etc seem to have a relatively large aceptance. I think we're getting into territory currently being explored in the "What Makes a Composer's Work Sell?" thread.
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I see what you mean, Thomas, but that still doesn't explain why Mellé and Nelson are ignored, and yet Lalo Schifrin, Quincy Jones, Jerry Fielding etc, plus some "crossover" works by Dave Grusin, David Shire etc seem to have a relatively large aceptance. I think we're getting into territory currently being explored in the "What Makes a Composer's Work Sell?" thread. Keep in mind the eternal jazz battle between the East Coast (the hardcore intellectual) vs. The West Coast (the mainstream/showbiz). Mellé and Nelson are East Coast as opposed to the West Coast Schifrin and Jones. That's an element in the problem: Schifrin and Jones are parts of the Hollywood establishment unlike Mellé (born in New Jersey) and Nelson (born in Saint Louis) who are mavericks from the New York scene.
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Posted: |
Aug 5, 2009 - 4:37 PM
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By: |
Jim Phelps
(Member)
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As it is written in the original blog, jazz listeners dislike symphonic jazz soundtracks or any forms of derived jazz created in the late 60's/early 70's. So people like Nelson and Mellé are ignored by two categories of listeners: the conventional soundtrack aficionados and the jazz purists. In short, the jazz addicts will remember Nelson and Mellé for their "acoustic" small formation works and the other audience will simply refuse them because they are too experimental or groovy. I guess it's time to pat myself on the back because I am one of those who love Nelson of "Blues and the Abstract Truth" (on the Impulse label), as well as the man who composed the theme to the Six Million Dollar Man. I loved TSMDM as a kid (circa 1976), but I never paid attention to who wrote the music. Flash forward seventeen years later, and I am grooving to the Impulse album with a veritable all-star lineup of Jazz titans: Bill Evans, Eric Dolphy, Roy Haynes, etc. and it was only in the last ten years or so that I learned that this same Oliver Nelson was the jazzman. BTW, Nelson the saxophonist had a beautiful, fluid tone...sweet almost, and he was a tasteful player as well as a splendid arranger and composer. Having said all that, Zigzag/Supercops was purchased by me for the latter score, but I rarely give the Fielding score a listen (though I do like it mucho), as the Nelson effort is just so good. I recently picked up a copy of Gil Melle's PRIMITIVE MODERN album, and I also love his experimental electronic stuff, too--endlessly hip, I am, if not modest...
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