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 Posted:   Feb 25, 2010 - 2:17 PM   
 By:   That Neil Guy   (Member)

Someone mentioned Battle Beyond The Stars over on this thread:
http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=66515&forumID=7&archive=0

And that got me humming the wonderful/horrible Cowboy and the Jackers fanfare. Yes, the terrific moment when (bless their hearts) the trumpets just can't keep it together. I believe the technical term for what the trumpets do is "blat."

For a long time, this was the score I wanted to own, thinking "if I only had that record, I wouldn't need anymore." What a simpler time that was. Anyway, I got the record (within a year or so of release) and played it often but, sadly, it did not eliminate the need to buy more more more.

This is still a really fun score. And all the foreshadowing of Star Trek II only makes it even more fun. I still love the Main Title theme and the aforementioned Cowboy and the Jackers track. You can still find copies of the cd http://bit.ly/9RaJLZ but they're expensive. I still have my vinyl copy as well as the cd.

Ah. Good times.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2010 - 2:59 PM   
 By:   vinylscrubber   (Member)

I agree, Neil, that BATTLE remains a fun score that, despite the less-than-perfect performance and the STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE knockoffs, still shows a first rate talent chafing to show his stuff.

Actually, you can hear more STAR TREK II precursors in his score to WOLFEN. (The "that which may not be mentioned" of WOLFEN also contains DEADLY BLESSING, which shows many bits of what was to become his score from SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES, when it's not doing an OMEN analog, more than likely a case of "temp track fever.")

 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2010 - 4:59 PM   
 By:   Maestro   (Member)

I'm glad you bought up the performance, because at times it really is cringe-worthy.

Even the Main Title, I much prefer the City of Prague re-recording, and that is most certainly a rarity for me, although I do enjoy a large selection of their performances, some however can also be terrible.

 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2010 - 10:50 PM   
 By:   Superman   (Member)

Ohh, I don't know. I rather enjoy the performance. It's as if the brass section was thrown off a building and kept playing all the way down. It has a raw, brassy, exciting squalor to it. I love it. Sounds like "hurried" war. Great cue to listen to while trying to exit the freeway, I would imagine. wink

 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2010 - 10:54 PM   
 By:   Maestro   (Member)

It just disappoints me that the performance wasn't top-notch even with the raw quality aspect of it you addressed.

I even listened to the original performance directly after the City of Prague version a while back, and it simply didn't work for me. I wish either they or another quality orchestra had re-recorded the entire score.... oh wait a second, I walked into that one. big grin

It's the same sort of situation as with Rambo III. The performance there is so poor at times I literally am bored at the very parts where I know the music should be enthralling me.

 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2010 - 11:14 PM   
 By:   Superman   (Member)

It just disappoints me that the performance wasn't top-notch even with the raw quality aspect of it you addressed.

I even listened to the original performance directly after the City of Prague version a while back, and it simply didn't work for me. I wish either they or another quality orchestra had re-recorded the entire score.... oh wait a second, I walked into that one. big grin


Well, for me, the fact that it wasn't top-notch is what made it raw. I am no hater of a brilliantly played piece, but it seems to me that there are exceptions. This is absolutely one of them. I would enjoy "The Asteroid Field" from The Empire Strikes Back(in all its exactitude) and the "Battle" cue with different, albeit much admiration.

 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2010 - 11:25 PM   
 By:   Superman   (Member)

It's the same sort of situation as with Rambo III. The performance there is so poor at times I literally am bored at the very parts where I know the music should be enthralling me.

Wow, Rambo III too, huh? Another enjoyably played score from my point of view. However, judging from your favorite score/composer list, I wouldn't argue much with your musical taste. Those are ALL incredible scores and composers too. Great choices, all. With regards to the "Battle" cue, maybe it just wasn't to be since you've compared them already.

 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2010 - 7:13 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

It's the same sort of situation as with Rambo III. The performance there is so poor at times I literally am bored at the very parts where I know the music should be enthralling me.

Do you have the remastered Rambo III? I had the old Intrada and didn't care for the score very much (thought it was because of the performance). Turned out it made a night and day difference when I upgraded to the remastered Intrada album. Now I love it!

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2010 - 7:35 AM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

It's the same sort of situation as with Rambo III. The performance there is so poor at times I literally am bored at the very parts where I know the music should be enthralling me.

Do you have the remastered Rambo III? I had the old Intrada and didn't care for the score very much (thought it was because of the performance). Turned out it made a night and day difference when I upgraded to the remastered Intrada album. Now I love it!

Yavar


I'm interested by the point you make re: the re-mastered release of Rambo III. I have the RVF 6006D release (owned for over 9 years) and despite numerous plays, I've never found the score exciting. Some pleasant themes, certainly, but not a score I turn to, to get my feet tapping! If anything, I often choose to play it if I want pleasant non-descript music in the background.

So maybe I should get the remastered release to hear a better performance ...

As for the thread: on the two-score CD I prefer Humanoids From The Deep as I'm more a fan of Mr. Horner's non-Star Trek sound! With a few exceptions I find his scores from the 1990s onwards far more enjoyable than those of the 1980s. Whilst Humanoids is an older score it is less intense and brassy.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2010 - 9:29 AM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

Well this is the one that got me all excited. Look he's using "PATTON" horn echoes! This was so fun. For the first time Roger Corman paid for a big sounding symphonic score! And since it was was done for Corman we had to a use a lot of it again and again in other subsequent productions. He never wasted anything. But after Horner's early low budget work we expected big things from him and when he got the STAR TREK II assignment we couldn't wait to hear it. And then it came out and having worked with BATTLE for so long hearing him transfer so much of the same stuff to TREK was a major letdown. But the majority out there never heard the Corman score and TREK launched his career. For them it was all original to TREK. I still think BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS is absolutely brilliant and original.

 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2010 - 9:30 AM   
 By:   Maestro   (Member)

Wow, Rambo III too, huh? Another enjoyably played score from my point of view. However, judging from your favorite score/composer list, I wouldn't argue much with your musical taste. Those are ALL incredible scores and composers too. Great choices, all. With regards to the "Battle" cue, maybe it just wasn't to be since you've compared them already.

I guess I'm just very picky when it comes to my music.

For instance, the early drum roll and off trumpet as soon as the Star Wars Main Title begins for Return Of The Jedi.

They had the common sense to at least make it less obvious in the actual film by removing the drum roll appearing "before" the poorly timed trumpet player.

Any Classical piece of music where I know the music extremely well... an incorrect tempo, orchestra mistakes, revised orchestration, key change, poorly mixed recording, etc will usually have me seeking out a better alternative.

With film scores I have the original, but it's still interesting to seek out an alternative, sometimes even better performance of the music.

It all just depends on what I'm hearing and what it does for me as a listening experience.

Do you have the remastered Rambo III? I had the old Intrada and didn't care for the score very much (thought it was because of the performance). Turned out it made a night and day difference when I upgraded to the remastered Intrada album. Now I love it!

Yavar


I think you have a point there, and yes I do have the remastered edition, but also the original.

I'll give it a shot, but I feel after it, I will still be wishing I was listening to Rambo: First Blood Part II instead.

 
 Posted:   Mar 20, 2010 - 7:55 PM   
 By:   Hedji   (Member)

How likely is it we could ever see a re-release of this? I'm tempted to plunk down the $30 for a copy of this, but I understand it is mastered from vinyl. Are the original tapes lost?

 
 Posted:   Mar 20, 2010 - 8:38 PM   
 By:   Trekfan   (Member)

Are the original tapes lost?

It was reported a few places around the time of the GNP release (from the vinyl records, as you say) that the master tapes are apparently in James Horner's own possession and he didn't want to participate in the release. (Being non-union, and obviously done on-the-cheap, it isn't as far-fetched as with a major studio release to see that being the case.) I can't vouch for that report, but if he doesn't have the masters I'm sure he'd have a second generation dub.

 
 Posted:   Mar 20, 2010 - 8:54 PM   
 By:   KevinSmith   (Member)

Why not just do a straight up re-recording with say the RSNO?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 20, 2010 - 11:26 PM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

Why not just do a straight up re-recording with say the RSNO?

Horner has all of the written scores and he's not about to give them up for a new recording.

You'd have to have someone do a take down of all of the cues from the filim itself and that's not a cheap thing to do.



Ford A. Thaxton

 
 Posted:   Mar 21, 2010 - 12:10 AM   
 By:   Ian J.   (Member)

This begs a question:

If a re-recording were to be done, should it be to the same orchestra size and standard as the original, or should it be a bigger orchestra playing to a much stricter and better standard?

Discuss... wink

 
 Posted:   Mar 21, 2010 - 1:27 AM   
 By:   Superman   (Member)

Why not just do a straight up re-recording with say the RSNO?

Horner has all of the written scores and he's not about to give them up for a new recording.

You'd have to have someone do a take down of all of the cues from the filim itself and that's not a cheap thing to do.

Ford A. Thaxton


This begs a question:

If a re-recording were to be done, should it be to the same orchestra size and standard as the original, or should it be a bigger orchestra playing to a much stricter and better standard?

Discuss... wink


Shame really, if they can't or won't. Cause I would LOVE to hear the RSNO do it.

 
 Posted:   Mar 21, 2010 - 5:23 AM   
 By:   KevinSmith   (Member)

Why not just do a straight up re-recording with say the RSNO?

Horner has all of the written scores and he's not about to give them up for a new recording.

You'd have to have someone do a take down of all of the cues from the filim itself and that's not a cheap thing to do.



Ford A. Thaxton


Surely the market for such a product would be big, because everyone loves Horner.

 
 Posted:   Mar 21, 2010 - 5:44 AM   
 By:   johnbijl   (Member)

This begs a question:

If a re-recording were to be done, should it be to the same orchestra size and standard as the original, or should it be a bigger orchestra playing to a much stricter and better standard?

Discuss... wink


Same size (and arrangements!), better standard. If a RNSO-re-recording would have *half* the energy of Stu Philips own re-recording of Battlestar Galactica with the RNSO, this album would never leave my iPhone. Or my cd-player, for that matter. It is certainly the kind of music that benefits from power and enthusiasm the Scotts tend to put in to orchestral music.

By the way, I think McNeely should yield the baton.

 
 Posted:   Mar 21, 2010 - 6:14 AM   
 By:   Superman   (Member)

By the way, I think McNeely should yield the baton.

Agreed.smile

 
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