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 Posted:   Apr 15, 2010 - 8:30 AM   
 By:   Accidental Genius   (Member)

It is widely believed, it seems, that Gracenote entries are provided by users, not labels.

This is something I've read several times on our board, but it's actually not true. I work in the music industry and also have a friend at one of the major labels, who indicated that the labels definitely submit their own info. While fans do submit info, this tends to be either error corrections (which GraceNotes will then double-check), indie release info, or titles that slip through the cracks. The major labels absolutely submit their own info to GraceNotes.

I also contacted GraceNotes directly for verification of this. Here is their response:

"Thanks for writing. Labels and publishers submit to our recognition service prior to release; submitting new information to our service is free and easy to accomplish. However if they do not submit information prior to release of the CD to the public, then someone who has purchased the CD may submit to fill the gap. Many music fans do this for their favorite artist (often with more minor artists who do not know how to submit). If there are any problems with a submit, we hear from fans or the artist or label themselves and our editors can verify and fix issues for them."

 
 Posted:   Apr 15, 2010 - 8:38 AM   
 By:   Urs Lesse   (Member)

Thanks for posting this. BUT. I think suggesting that label-submitted GraceNotes entries are the rule (as the quote does) is questionable. From my experience, those are either the exception or most labels don't care much about how their entries look. The quote does not actually specify how many entries are label-submitted and how many are fan-submitted. It leaves open both possibilities while the wording suggests labels as the prime source.

I would welcome if the vast majority of GraceNotes entries was label-submitted, but from my own year long experience, I find that very hard to believe.

But to come to a positive note. I have noticed quite frequently that FSM CDs often have the most flawless GraceNotes entries (apart from FSM being the only label to always get capitalization right on their CD back covers).

LUKAS, do you submit them? smile

 
 Posted:   Apr 15, 2010 - 9:10 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Gracenotes is a mixed bag. As a service its fantastic but often enough I get people who have seriously weird or anal retentive ways of filling out CD information. Nevermind misspellings, I'm talking about things like people who put soundtracks under the NEW AGE category, who put the movie title in caps lock before every track, who don't use capitalization at all, who credit the orchestra instead of the composer, who write bizarre things in the CD Notes section...

You know who you people are. One day, I *will* find you. And then I'll throw a fish into your heating vent and you won't find it for months, damn your eyes!

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 15, 2010 - 9:54 AM   
 By:   guest   (Member)



Yes I love the Goldmsith error that plagued almost all of his scores.


I also love 2 disc sets that list the composer for one disc and then for disc 2 it suddenly becomes The London Symphony Orchestra or something similar. And I just love it when half of the disc or disc 1 is in ALL CAPS and disc 2 / rest of the disc is in lower case.

 
 Posted:   Apr 15, 2010 - 10:01 AM   
 By:   Urs Lesse   (Member)

Yes I love the Goldmsith error that plagued almost all of his scores.

Thank you, Mark! I really thought I had once taught that to my iTunes! big grin

 
 Posted:   Apr 15, 2010 - 3:03 PM   
 By:   Jon A. Bell   (Member)

Gracenotes is a mixed bag. As a service its fantastic but often enough I get people who have seriously weird or anal retentive ways of filling out CD information. Nevermind misspellings, I'm talking about things like people who put soundtracks under the NEW AGE category, who put the movie title in caps lock before every track, who don't use capitalization at all, who credit the orchestra instead of the composer, who write bizarre things in the CD Notes section...

You know who you people are. One day, I *will* find you. And then I'll throw a fish into your heating vent and you won't find it for months, damn your eyes!


I've brought this up in another thread, but, yeah, stuff like this drives me crazy.

Here's another thing: the whole iTunes emphasis on "songs" completely destroys the concept of albums if someone checks "Compilation" and an album's info lists multiple artists. Stupid *&&^%ing iTunes will take an album like, oh, THE LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- a Broadway musical -- and rip it to a dozen different freaking folders with the artist's names (or combination thereof), and inside each folder will be another separate "Piazza" folder.

What idiot did this? Did someone at the label assume you'd want to have this musical's score and songs scattered all over your music library, and if you wanted to listen to it you'd have to track them all down and drag them separately into iTunes? This is just stupid as hell.

And yeah, for classical albums, I certainly want the "artist" to be listed as a conductor and/or the orchestra, rather than, oh, "Beethoven." That definitely makes it easy to organize your music. (Not.)

Hang on a second -- "Hey, you damn kids -- get off my lawn!"

 
 Posted:   Apr 15, 2010 - 3:54 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Stupid *&&^%ing iTunes

While I have an IPhone, I never, ever use ITunes to rip anything. I've got maybe a dozen Cds on my phone, I don't ever play them really. They're just there in case I forget my regular MP3 player which I've had for years. For that one, I just rip something in Easy CD-DA and then drag and drop it into the player.

ITunes is a badly conceived ripper, player and program. Why in God's name can't it rip a CD and directly drop it to an IPod?

 
 Posted:   Apr 15, 2010 - 9:25 PM   
 By:   Accidental Genius   (Member)

Thanks for posting this. BUT. I think suggesting that label-submitted GraceNotes entries are the rule (as the quote does) is questionable. From my experience, those are either the exception or most labels don't care much about how their entries look. The quote does not actually specify how many entries are label-submitted and how many are fan-submitted. It leaves open both possibilities while the wording suggests labels as the prime source.

I would welcome if the vast majority of GraceNotes entries was label-submitted, but from my own year long experience, I find that very hard to believe.

But to come to a positive note. I have noticed quite frequently that FSM CDs often have the most flawless GraceNotes entries (apart from FSM being the only label to always get capitalization right on their CD back covers).

LUKAS, do you submit them? smile


I'd definitely love to hear Lukas's notes on how they do it, but I guess I've been really, really lucky. Of the 200 some-odd CDs I've bought in the last 2 years that I've had an iPod (and 90% of those were major label releases), not to mention all the CDs I've transferred from my other CDs, I've had maybe 2 that didn't automatically populate with the track titles, and one of those was because my internet was on the fritz. smile Not saying your experience isn't what you've described, but I did a bit more checking today and the major labels absolutely send the info in prior to streetdates for their titles. I think that all the other little labels are more likely to rely on users, and that's when I think we get into trouble.

That said, however, I'm going to tell a less flattering GraceNotes story: Pretty sure it was the MCA CD of Stu Phillips' 1978 BATTLESTAR GALACTICA. When it ripped, the title field had a misspelling of GALACTICA and the artist field Stu's last name. So I ripped it, then entered the title in the search field and couldn't find what I had just burned. Tried Stu's name and of course it also didn't come up. I then sorted by most recent added, found it, and realized why it wouldn't show up. Someone was definitely sleeping when they input that one!

All this said, I think iTunes is actually a pretty decent program, but there are some annoyances. Like I still haven't been able to figure out how to properly enter a soundtrack that's got, say, 10 of 12 tracks of Barry score with two songs, and not have the Cover Flow show the cover not only under J for John but also under the first letter of the artist of each of the 2 extra songs. THAT is annoying. Still haven't figured out what the heck the Album Artist field or the Album Sort field (I think that's the title) are because they don't at all help this matter. And yet, there are some albums where it doesn't do this. Colour me puzzled.

 
 Posted:   Apr 15, 2010 - 9:39 PM   
 By:   Josh   (Member)

Reading this thread has made me truly realize what a dinosaur I've become, technologically speaking.

 
 Posted:   Apr 15, 2010 - 9:48 PM   
 By:   mastadge   (Member)

I don't use cover flow. I like the spreadsheet layout, myself.

 
 Posted:   Apr 15, 2010 - 11:55 PM   
 By:   Urs Lesse   (Member)

I'd definitely love to hear Lukas's notes on how they do it, but I guess I've been really, really lucky. Of the 200 some-odd CDs I've bought in the last 2 years that I've had an iPod (and 90% of those were major label releases), not to mention all the CDs I've transferred from my other CDs, I've had maybe 2 that didn't automatically populate with the track titles, and one of those was because my internet was on the fritz. smile Not saying your experience isn't what you've described, but I did a bit more checking today and the major labels absolutely send the info in prior to streetdates for their titles. I think that all the other little labels are more likely to rely on users, and that's when I think we get into trouble.

I guess you are spot on regarding major labels and smaller labels. Probably I just don't import so many major label CDs. And your quota of CDs that are not in the database from the start is probably the same that I find - I wasn't referring so much to missing entries, but (slightly) flawed ones or just entries that included differences from the printed back cover tracklist (like Italian, French or German tracklists that wrongly have all first letters capitalized). Those flawed entries often made me think they might not come from the label, and maybe that assumption is wrong.

 
 Posted:   Apr 16, 2010 - 6:15 AM   
 By:   Accidental Genius   (Member)

Reading this thread has made me truly realize what a dinosaur I've become, technologically speaking.

Aaah, but young at heart, Josh! smile

 
 Posted:   Apr 16, 2010 - 6:17 AM   
 By:   Accidental Genius   (Member)

I wasn't referring so much to missing entries, but (slightly) flawed ones or just entries that included differences from the printed back cover tracklist (like Italian, French or German tracklists that wrongly have all first letters capitalized). Those flawed entries often made me think they might not come from the label, and maybe that assumption is wrong.

Yeah, perhaps whoever those labels get to do it is English-speaking and thinks it's correct to Capitalize The First Letter Of Each Word In A Title. smile You could still be right in the case of such releases, though. Heck, who knows?

 
 Posted:   Apr 16, 2010 - 6:34 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Yeah, perhaps whoever those labels get to do it is English-speaking and thinks it's correct to Capitalize The First Letter Of Each Word In A Title.

I actually do this for myself - but I never submit it to Gracenotes like that. I just happen to find it easier to read it if I have to grab my MP3 player for a split second when driving.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 16, 2010 - 7:32 AM   
 By:   guest   (Member)



I admit it, I capitalize the first letter of each word in titles and cues.



And yes I have submitted some to Grace Notes. Let the flogging begin.

 
 Posted:   Apr 16, 2010 - 10:08 AM   
 By:   w-dervish   (Member)

Reading this thread has made me truly realize what a dinosaur I've become, technologically speaking.

I don't use iTunes because it is incompatible with my OS... my computer is over 10 years old. I also do not have an MP3 player.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 19, 2010 - 12:29 PM   
 By:   filmusicnow   (Member)

Yes I love the Goldmsith error that plagued almost all of his scores.


I also love 2 disc sets that list the composer for one disc and then for disc 2 it suddenly becomes The London Symphony Orchestra or something similar. And I just love it when half of the disc or disc 1 is in ALL CAPS and disc 2 / rest of the disc is in lower case.


Or how about on the info grid, they list the artist as "Jerry Goldsmith 1929-2004"?

 
 Posted:   May 21, 2014 - 11:27 PM   
 By:   Ron Hardcastle   (Member)

Unable to find a much later discussion about GraceNotes that I started over 6 months ago, I posted something here, but then found it. So I came back and deleted it from here.

Am I the only one who will put in something very specific in the "Search Terms" box and it comes up incomplete? I had typed in variations of "GraceNotes" ("Gracenotes," "Grace Notes") and only this 2010 discussion came up. Later I tried it again and suddenly 2 more discussions appeared, including the one I wanted. So I deleted it from here and posted it under my own "GraceNotes." Sorry.

 
 Posted:   Dec 2, 2014 - 2:09 PM   
 By:   mastadge   (Member)



Why do people do this annoying crap? THE WHOLE CD is from The Day of the Doctor. You don't need to label each individual track.

 
 Posted:   Dec 3, 2014 - 8:02 AM   
 By:   AlexCope   (Member)

Agreed! (From "Doctor Who - The Day of the Doctor")

 
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