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Posted: Jun 1, 2010 - 12:09 PM Reply to Post
By: chriss (Member)
The strange thing is that some of the cues from Shaindlin's library contain a quotation of the Superman theme. The question is: were the quotations added later after the theme was chosen or are the cues coming from an older library score? I would like to know because some of the cues are really good.
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Can anyone give me a reference to exactly WHICH of Jack Shaindlin's CineMusic Library LP(s) have quotation of the Superman theme (e.g., CMR-118, CMR-411, or whatever) and what the name of the cue is. If I have it, I want to give it a re-listen, as I don't recall having heard the theme in the ones that I have listened to so far.
Ron Burbella
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Eureka! I thought of it.
TWELVE GREAT THEMES OF THE SOARING '60's [Volume IV]
Hugo Montenegro with 20th Century Strings [1960]
20th Century-Fox FOX-3043/SFX-3043
Never On Sunday...................Manos Hajidakis
The Apartment.......................Charles Williams
The Alamo..............................Dimitri Tiomkin
The Diary Of Anne Frank........Alfred Newman
From The Terrace...................Elmer Bernstein
Can Can.................................Cole Porter
Sons And Lovers....................Mario Nascimbene
Hong Kong.............................Lionel Newman
Adventures In Paradise..........Lionel Newman
A Summer Place......................Max Steiner
Klondike..................................Vic Mizzy
Mr. Lucky.................................Henry Mancini
Ron Burbella
Close enough. I'm not sure what theme they used for Acapulco. As you no doubt recall the Ralph Taeger/James Coburn 1898ish Klondike show was failing so after a dozen episodes the show switched from Klondike in one week to Acapulco with the boys now playing ex Korean War Vets living and adventuring in modern day Acapulco. Assume Mizzy was still on the project but don't remember anything else about it. Mizzy could do some okay stuff as soon as he got out from under the Don Knotts shadow. How about the Clebanoff Strings album with the theme from The Prize. After Black Sadle (TV) on the GE Theater album it was of course JG's first album appearance. The love theme from The Prize including a droning chorus is on the Clebanoff album and saw 45RPM release and some play on local radio stations. Got the album? Showed it to JG but he had no memory of it's release or the arrangement of the theme. It made me a fan forever. Assume you had a similiar experience somewhere along the line. What was the theme or album that turned out to be your initial JG experience on vinyl?
Wait a minute! You left out Goldsmith's main title for "The Lineup"'s final season (when it expanded to an hour) on Buddy Morrow's "Impact" album (titled "San Francisco Blues") and heard in its original version on "Jerry Goldsmith: The Early Years" C.D..
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Posted: |
Jun 4, 2010 - 5:10 PM
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By: |
MMM
(Member)
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The fact that some of the themes seem to be related can mean one of at least three things:
1) They were cues from the same movie that provided the tracks for the Superman show. The fact that Mandell claims it was an Indian movie because he hears Indian sounds just isn't acceptable "proof" as far as I'm concerned. Until somebody sees that movie, it's just a theory, and one totally lacking in any evidence. I have been researching cue histories long enough to know that there are many times when I was 100% POSTIVE about a theory of mine because everything fit perfectly. Until I presented my well-researched theory to somebody who was there at the time, and with one simple sentence they totally disproved my theory. So now I refrain from stating things as facts or even stating that there is a chance they might be facts without letting the reader know there are other possibilities as well, and I'm just speculating.
2) They were cues from a library session that resulted in a number of related pieces of music being based on the same theme. This happened all the time, as libraries would sometimes deliberately write/record similar pieces that could be licensed together to create some thematic consistency, as well as to increase the chance that somebody could find the use for a particularly good theme. So there could be fast versions of a given theme, slow versions, action versions, atmospheric cues, etc.
3) They were cues from some movie that were later possibly re-recorded for a music library. This also happened from time-to-time, as a music library would "acquire" (either legally or illegally) certain pieces from other pictures that they felt they could get more mileage from, so they'd hire new orchestras to redo these pieces, often offering variations on them as well.
The copyright notice pertaining to the Superman theme music appears to be bogus and has a number of mistakes in it. I've seen the original documentation, and it appears to have been registered so somebody could claim some royalties to the music. I wouldn't believe anything written on the registration, least of all the name of it, as I don't think there was any written music that was in the possession of those who filled out and filed that copyright registration.
The only thing we know for sure at this point is that we don't know who wrote the music, who arranged it, who recorded it, when it was written, when it was recorded, etc. All we know is that it's good music that was used in ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN. And I see no problem in just accepting this until proof -- not speculation -- comes along. If Mandell is right, I will trumpet it to the 110 people who care. If he isn't, I'll trumpet that, too. But we just don't know what's what right now, so anyone claiming to know or to think they know is just offering an opinion rather than facts.
I recall many years ago when a certain researcher who was obsessed with SUPERMAN and THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING MAN sent Irving Gertz a cassette of a whole bunch of classical works used to promote the researcher's thesis or why the composer wrote what he did, who influenced him, how it affected the music in Superman, and all sorts of other stuff. I played the tape for Irving, read him the researcher's incredibly-detailed thesis about the music, and after listening to the music for about three minutes, Irving told me the theory was nonsense and the researcher's an idiot. Which didn't stop the researcher from writing equally erroneous liner notes on some CD releases and in music periodicals. Just because you can get published doesn't mean youknow a hill of beans about anything.
As a liner note writer myself, without mentioning names, I will state that there are some absolutely horrendous liner notes being done these days -- where the goal seemed to be to get the release out before some other label did. Therefore, mistakes have crept into the recordings, the liner notes, the research behind them, the art, and everything else. It's just product to some people -- a way of making a few quick bucks -- rather than product that deserves a lot more respect and tender loving care. The fact that some people keep making mistake after mistake after mistake is proof enough of that. MMM isn't perfect, but we do try hard to always do as good a job as we can. And nobody can EVER accuse us of getting things out too quickly!
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Posted: |
Sep 30, 2015 - 8:59 AM
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By: |
manderley
(Member)
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It's actually TWO pieces of music put together.
Yes, music editor Klatzkin spoke in 1983 of two parts of the Theme he called "the Main Flying Theme" and the "Superman March", although the official title of the Theme in copyright records is "Superman MS" (which is an abbreviation for manuscript).
The cues containing the quotations of the Superman Theme are possibly coming from "a score orchestrated by Jack Shaindlin in New York for a documentary concerning American Indians" (Paul Mandell). I can only find at the imdb "Tale of the Navajos" (1949) with Musical Direction by Jack Shaindlin. But it seems that nobody (including Mandell) has ever seen this!
"Tale of the Navajos" has been released (sometime in 2010) on DVD by Warner Archive. I've listened to the soundtrack (scored by Lan Adomian) many times. It's very good music, but it bears absolutely NO KINSHIP with any music used on the Superman TV show. Back to square one.
According to IMDB (which, of course, I should NEVER quote), THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN series first hit the air in September of 1952.
Prior to that, in February, 1952, there was a small, independent semi-documentary film directed by Norman Foster which hit movie screens and was even nominated for two Oscars (Photography and Documentary Feature). This picture, released by Lippert, was called NAVAJO.
The credited composer was........Leith Stevens.......a man whose credited work was often used as uncredited stock in feature scores over several decades.
I wonder if this could conceivably be the "Navajo" Mandell is referring to.
And.......has anyone seen/listened to NAVAJO recently???
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