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 Posted:   Aug 27, 2010 - 10:13 PM   
 By:   The Projectionist   (Member)

I remember hearing that the original mastering for this score suffered the same or simular error of King Solomon's Mine, by having the wrong sample rate before being converted to CD, resulting in the recording being heard at a higher pitch than it was supposed to.

Varese released a compliation of Ottman's scores with a few tracks from Incognito that had corrected masterings. But what about the rest of the score? Could Varese or anyone else reissue the Incognito soundtrack the way it was meant to be heard?

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 27, 2010 - 10:59 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

Come on dude, what message board do you think you're on you know Ottman gets no love around these parts.

But I agree, a great score worthy of a proper damn release.

 
 Posted:   Aug 27, 2010 - 11:06 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Can the old release be converted to the way it should sound, in a program like Audacity or Peak? Does anyone know what exactly has to be corrected? Sounds more than just a pitch adjustment.


Edit: Just found these old comments on Filmtracks:

One of the more controversial aspects of Incognito has been its album mix. On its 50-minute album, the music was given a very treble-heavy presentation, allowing the specialty instruments --especially the metallic ones-- to shine with great clarity. While this does add to the unique sound of the score (and the listener can amplify the bass to counter the album's presentation), it causes some elements to lose their natural tones (and sound tinny). The sax, for instance, can sometimes be confused with the sound of a harmonica. Ottman was not satisfied with this presentation, despite the clarity of the recording otherwise being nothing less than stunning, and when he discovered the original masters for the score within a few years, he allowed them to be used for three cues on the Cruel Intentions compilation album of his works three years later. There has been an indication that he would someday like to provide a more balanced mix of Incognito's entirety on album, and his fans would certainly welcome it. In the meantime, the original album for this score is still nothing less than a marvelous display of creativity.

 
 Posted:   Aug 27, 2010 - 11:09 PM   
 By:   Miles (MerM)   (Member)

Indeed. You're not allowed to like Ottman here. razz

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 27, 2010 - 11:15 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

Indeed. You're not allowed to like Ottman here. razz

Because you know....someone with passion for film scores, talent, and the orchestral way is just wrong! Plain wrong!

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2010 - 1:32 AM   
 By:   The Cat   (Member)

Staight from the horse's (Ottman's) mouth [excerpts from official website]:

When we began mixing the score at Blowtorch Flats (Basil Poledouris' studio) in Venice, we discovered a disastrous problem in the score. Static was popping up from track to track throughout. It was discovered to have been a Dolby card problem when the score was recorded. We began dodging and ducking static, until it was just not working anymore. We then sent mixed cues to a digital specialist to remove the static. Unfortunately, frequency ranges were removed as well. It was heartbreaking. The mix dragged on as I was being sent dailies to Apt Pupil, which didn't exactly relax me. Finally, we found a new digital technique to remove the elusive pops and crackles without sacrificing fidelity. It was mastered a little more brightly than I wanted (which will always disturb me), but in the end the score was saved. Then the movie went straight to video. Actually it's on DVD now as well with John Badham, the writer and me blabbing away on the alternate track. I have no idea if I sound like an idiot or not.

--------------------

In preparing the Cruel Intentions album, I discovered a digital audio tape of my original mastered mixes for Incognito. When I heard the tape, I was excited to hear that these were the way I had intended the soundtrack album to sound. We had some pops and crackles throughout the recording of Incognito from a defective Dolby card in our control room. This is why, prior to the album's mastering, that the cues were passed through a sonic filtering device to remove these glitches. The frequency range was compromised from the original recording and then brightened. But the tape I discovered was the original mastered recording prior to this filtering process, and the sound is beautiful. Who cares about a subtle pop here and there. I'd rather hear the pure recording as I remembered.

So this Cruel Intention CD contains three cues from Incognito which have been resurrected from the original mastered tapes of the score. It is the only available way to hear these cues as I originally intended them to sound on the album. I would love to release a new CD of the entire score with the original mastering. But at least you get to hear three cues for now!

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2010 - 5:40 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

This is by far his best score.

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2010 - 6:48 AM   
 By:   KevinSmith   (Member)

Indeed. You're not allowed to like Ottman here. razz

Because you know....someone with passion for film scores, talent, and the orchestral way is just wrong! Plain wrong!


You said it, brother.

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2010 - 7:43 AM   
 By:   SBD   (Member)

Indeed. You're not allowed to like Ottman here. razz

Speaking of which, whatever happened to Richard Street? Not that I, in any way, miss his ridiculous, Ottman-bashing agenda. I'm just curious.

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2010 - 8:07 AM   
 By:   The Projectionist   (Member)

Staight from the horse's (Ottman's) mouth [excerpts from official website]:

When we began mixing the score at Blowtorch Flats (Basil Poledouris' studio) in Venice, we discovered a disastrous problem in the score. Static was popping up from track to track throughout. It was discovered to have been a Dolby card problem when the score was recorded. We began dodging and ducking static, until it was just not working anymore. We then sent mixed cues to a digital specialist to remove the static. Unfortunately, frequency ranges were removed as well. It was heartbreaking. The mix dragged on as I was being sent dailies to Apt Pupil, which didn't exactly relax me. Finally, we found a new digital technique to remove the elusive pops and crackles without sacrificing fidelity. It was mastered a little more brightly than I wanted (which will always disturb me), but in the end the score was saved. Then the movie went straight to video. Actually it's on DVD now as well with John Badham, the writer and me blabbing away on the alternate track. I have no idea if I sound like an idiot or not.

--------------------

In preparing the Cruel Intentions album, I discovered a digital audio tape of my original mastered mixes for Incognito. When I heard the tape, I was excited to hear that these were the way I had intended the soundtrack album to sound. We had some pops and crackles throughout the recording of Incognito from a defective Dolby card in our control room. This is why, prior to the album's mastering, that the cues were passed through a sonic filtering device to remove these glitches. The frequency range was compromised from the original recording and then brightened. But the tape I discovered was the original mastered recording prior to this filtering process, and the sound is beautiful. Who cares about a subtle pop here and there. I'd rather hear the pure recording as I remembered.

So this Cruel Intention CD contains three cues from Incognito which have been resurrected from the original mastered tapes of the score. It is the only available way to hear these cues as I originally intended them to sound on the album. I would love to release a new CD of the entire score with the original mastering. But at least you get to hear three cues for now!



So basically, even if the original masters were released, they'd still have the static! Thats terrible.

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2010 - 10:09 AM   
 By:   Miles (MerM)   (Member)

Indeed. You're not allowed to like Ottman here. razz

Because you know....someone with passion for film scores, talent, and the orchestral way is just wrong! Plain wrong!


You said it, brother.


You said it, brutha.

Someday, you guys need to explain to me why this guy gets so much flack.

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2010 - 10:45 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)


So basically, even if the original masters were released, they'd still have the static! Thats terrible.



No. They can now be removed without the hit.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2010 - 12:42 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

Indeed. You're not allowed to like Ottman here. razz

Speaking of which, whatever happened to Richard Street? Not that I, in any way, miss his ridiculous, Ottman-bashing agenda. I'm just curious.


That's the tendency of....people....who have an agenda with no ground to stand on. To disappear. Oh well. Addition by subtraction.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2010 - 12:45 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

You said it, brutha.

Someday, you guys need to explain to me why this guy gets so much flack.


I am still waiting to hear a credible argument as to why John Ottman is not respected as well. Oh wait, he simplified the Lois Lane theme.....OH NO!!!!!! Get over it he did what the movie called for. The score sounds like a contest between new and old because that is what the movie was. Superman Returns is a fantastic score and the album is very good. If you don't like "How Could You Leave Us?" I dunno what you want in a film score. That track is almost seven minutes of beauty.

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2010 - 1:09 PM   
 By:   KevinSmith   (Member)

You said it, brutha.

Someday, you guys need to explain to me why this guy gets so much flack.


I am still waiting to hear a credible argument as to why John Ottman is not respected as well. Oh wait, he simplified the Lois Lane theme.....OH NO!!!!!! Get over it he did what the movie called for. The score sounds like a contest between new and old because that is what the movie was. Superman Returns is a fantastic score and the album is very good. If you don't like "How Could You Leave Us?" I dunno what you want in a film score. That track is almost seven minutes of beauty.


He made the Lois Lane theme sound less 1970s...

 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2010 - 1:17 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Superman Returns is a fantastic score and the album is very good.

I agree completely. Ottman really did a great job on that score.

As to Incognito - there was also a limited edition version of the score, that was signed by the composer and had different liner notes. The cover had a keyboard and a bunch of review quotes all over it from Scorelouge, TNT's Rough Cut and FSM's own Jeff Bond. I once asked John about them and he replied "Wow - That's from a long time ago! No, if I'm remembering correctly, it's the same album that was released, except they may have done a new cover and had me sign them." I think there was only 300 of them made?

(I had one of these oddities myself but gave it as a gift to a friend after they mentioned how much they loved the score.)

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 28, 2010 - 1:49 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

Cool story! Thanks for sharing!

 
 Posted:   Aug 29, 2010 - 8:28 PM   
 By:   BasilFSM   (Member)

With all the praise I hear about this score, I'd love to own the album, or even a rereleased edition.

Didn't La-La Land say something about trying to release this score themselves and they couldn't for some reason? Or am I thinking of something else?

 
 Posted:   Aug 29, 2010 - 9:34 PM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)



He made the Lois Lane theme sound less 1970s...


Yeah, that full orchestral sound of the 1970's, what a bunch of shit that was!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 29, 2010 - 10:17 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)



He made the Lois Lane theme sound less 1970s...


Yeah, that full orchestral sound of the 1970's, what a bunch of shit that was!


Because Superman Returns was scored with a 30 piece ensamble...

 
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