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 Posted:   Aug 30, 2010 - 6:02 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

I don't get how the love theme from Superman sounded too much like the 1970's that it needed to be 2000'd up.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2010 - 7:22 AM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

First of all, if I recall correctly, the talk of the music "dating" the movie was in mention to the main theme. And it wasn't a disparaging remark either. It was simply a reservation that the film makers were considering.

And so what if the love theme was simplified? Had John Williams did it, the comments would read like this:

"And then there is the love theme spectacularly simplified to reflect both the times and John Williams' post-2000s style. The harmonic structure is different, but that incredible melody is still there and absolutely carries this new arrangement."

Or some other winded argument that would vindicate ANYTHING that he does. But nope, Ottman gets no pass.

 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2010 - 11:13 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

It's nothing against Ottman at all, really. Just a strange thing to say, that the Superman music was antiquated at all.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2010 - 12:47 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

It's nothing against Ottman at all, really. Just a strange thing to say, that the Superman music was antiquated at all.

I certainly don't think that Superman's music is antiquated. The original movie is my favorite score of all time. But I really think that the two star review given to the soundtrack by David Coscina in FMS was quite laughable especially when reading the reasoning behind such a low rating. Now I have nothing personal against the reviewer and I DO think that the criticism of the first score being about elevation and clashing with the new movie valid, but come on digging so deep as to intertwine a Goldsmith compositional method into Ottman's work which serves to somehow take away from the piece is reaching quite far. John Ottman may not be John Williams, but he is talented and was certainly capable of doing the best job possible on that film which had problems to begin with. And believe me, I WANTED to love that movie.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2010 - 1:16 PM   
 By:   MikeP   (Member)


I am still waiting to hear a credible argument as to why John Ottman is not respected as well....Superman Returns is a fantastic score and the album is very good. If you don't like "How Could You Leave Us?" I dunno what you want in a film score. That track is almost seven minutes of beauty.


There's no real reason why Ottman catches so much crap, aside from being one of the Kaplan's favorite character assassination targets. Absolutely on the money with "How Could You Leave Us?" - simply fabulous stuff and any fanboy sniping pales before it.

 
 Posted:   Nov 14, 2013 - 10:18 AM   
 By:   Ron Hardcastle   (Member)

I've been playing a lot of John Ottman's music the past couple of days -- after playing the CD of Abel Korzeniowski's "Romeo And Juliet," I found myself longing to hear Ottman's wonderful score for "Incognito" and I wanted to share the frustration I encountered in trying to buy that soundtrack. So, while searching here for Ottman I found this discussion from over 3 years ago and was startled to learn of the history of the defective masters for that score. What a nightmare for Ottman!

I originally saw "Incognito" on cable many many years ago and immediately bought the DVD. In the special features was a list of all the cues on the RCA soundtrack and we could play "The Creation," the heart of the score, and I immediately went looking for it, haunting record stores in Southern California and even placing an order for it at one of them, although they finally refunded my deposit because they were unable to find it. When I got my first iPod in 2003 I transferred some of the music from the DVD, including "The Creation," to a CD-R and then to my iTunes, but continued to long for the entire soundtrack. One day, while going through music CDs at Amazon, I came across "Incognito" and ordered it, but it turned out to be a rock group by that name, and, unfamiliar with how easy it was to return unopened things to Amazon, kept it. So I was careful to make sure the next CD I ordered had the proper graphics from the film. But, alas, what I got was another copy of the DVD. Years later I exchanged email with a kind gentleman at movie music.com, who said he would try to find the "Incognito" soundtrack CD for me, and he eventually did, and it certainly sounded fine to me when I listened to it. In the end, I must have spent over $50 for that one [defective?) soundtrack.

"Incognito" remains a favorite film of mine (star Jason Patric is excellent as the art forger, although he created old-looking works rather than copying specific paintings), and Ottman and director John Badham are terrific on the audio commentary (Ottman also edited the film). Incidentally, I was pleased to find that they too weren't that happy with the painting that was supposed to be Patric's attempt to paint his own original portraits rather than creating others in the style of the masters. Would have loved to have seen "Incognito" (and heard that wonderful score) in a large theatre!

https://soundcloud.com/ron-hardcastle/the-creation

 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2014 - 3:03 AM   
 By:   Ron Hardcastle   (Member)

Re: Staight from the horse's (Ottman's) mouth [excerpts from official website]:

When we began mixing the score at Blowtorch Flats (Basil Poledouris' studio) in Venice, we discovered a disastrous problem in the score. Static was popping up from track to track throughout. It was discovered to have been a Dolby card problem when the score was recorded. We began dodging and ducking static, until it was just not working anymore. We then sent mixed cues to a digital specialist to remove the static. Unfortunately, frequency ranges were removed as well. It was heartbreaking. The mix dragged on as I was being sent dailies to Apt Pupil, which didn't exactly relax me. Finally, we found a new digital technique to remove the elusive pops and crackles without sacrificing fidelity. It was mastered a little more brightly than I wanted (which will always disturb me), but in the end the score was saved. Then the movie went straight to video. Actually it's on DVD now as well with John Badham, the writer and me blabbing away on the alternate track. I have no idea if I sound like an idiot or not.

In preparing the Cruel Intentions album, I discovered a digital audio tape of my original mastered mixes for Incognito. When I heard the tape, I was excited to hear that these were the way I had intended the soundtrack album to sound. We had some pops and crackles throughout the recording of Incognito from a defective Dolby card in our control room. This is why, prior to the album's mastering, that the cues were passed through a sonic filtering device to remove these glitches. The frequency range was compromised from the original recording and then brightened. But the tape I discovered was the original mastered recording prior to this filtering process, and the sound is beautiful. Who cares about a subtle pop here and there. I'd rather hear the pure recording as I remembered.

So this Cruel Intention CD contains three cues from Incognito which have been resurrected from the original mastered tapes of the score. It is the only available way to hear these cues as I originally intended them to sound on the album. I would love to release a new CD of the entire score with the original mastering. But at least you get to hear three cues for now!


I stumbled across this in the wee hours and went to Amazon and bought the above "Cruel Intentions" CD and it will be interesting to compare the 3 cues from "Incognito" with the supposedly imperfect RCA version I've owned for several years. Been buying a lot of Ottman lately, including the expanded 2-CD set of "Superman Returns" as well as some older scores like "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" and "Fantastic 4" to add to my growing Ottman collection.

Re: "...with John Badham, the writer and me blabbing away on the alternate track. I have no idea if I sound like an idiot or not." Well, Ottman DOESN'T sound like an idiot on the audio commentary of "Incognito," and I love that in addition to his magical score, he also beautifully edited that movie, still a favorite of mine.

 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2014 - 12:25 PM   
 By:   Ron Hardcastle   (Member)

I received the "Cruel Intentions" CD with its 3 cues from Ottman's "Incognito," and they sound great! (Will need to do an A/B comparison with the ones from the RCA original recording to see how they differ.) Have been listening to my John Ottman playlist, now over 7 hours long, which starts with the 3 re-done cues from "Incognito" and then the rest of the "Cruel Intentions" CD, and so far it's been a delight. (I included all the NON-John Williams cues from both releases of "Superman Returns," plus "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang," "Fantastic Four," the entire "Incognito," and more.)

 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2014 - 12:45 PM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

I received the "Cruel Intentions" CD with its 3 cues from Ottman's "Incognito," and they sound great! (Will need to do an A/B comparison with the ones from the RCA original recording to see how they differ.) Have been listening to my John Ottman playlist, now over 7 hours long, which starts with the 3 re-done cues from "Incognito" and then the rest of the "Cruel Intentions" CD, and so far it's been a delight. (I included all the NON-John Williams cues from both releases of "Superman Returns," plus "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang," "Fantastic Four," the entire "Incognito," and more.)

I'm a fan of Incognito, shrill sound aside, but 7 hours in a row of Ottman? I don't think I could handle that, but more power to ye.

 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2014 - 12:50 PM   
 By:   Ron Hardcastle   (Member)

Shaun: I don't think that I wrote that I was going to listen to all of it in one sitting! Am now in the middle of "Cruel Intentions" itself and will probably put it aside until I take one of my walks. I have some playlists that are 10 or more hours long, but often start in the middle of them -- must have well over 200 playlists! But must say that Ottman's "Cruel Intentions" is hypnotic!

Over 90 minutes later after writing the above and I'm still listening to Ottman ... #60 of 130! "Hypnotic" was the right word!

 
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